Most people don’t need another piece of advice, they need to feel truly heard. Sylvia Worsham sits down with clinical psychologist Dr. Eleanor Haspel Portner to unpack why fear, doubt, and worry often grow louder when we try to “think” our way out of soul-level pain, and how purpose gets clearer when we return to inner alignment.
We walk through Dr. Eleanor’s Four Worlds framework: the mental waking world, the emotional angelic world of higher consciousness, the physical biological world where stress and reactivity show up, and the spiritual world of unity with God. The breakthrough is learning that communication is state-specific. If we use the wrong language for the state someone is in, we miss them completely. You’ll hear simple ways to hold space without fixing, labeling, or pushing an outcome, including clean questions that gently guide a person back to inner knowing.
We also talk parenting in a noisy, screen-filled culture, and what it looks like to honor a child’s uniqueness instead of forcing a mold. Dr. Eleanor shares a moving story from her work with a traumatized child and explains why calm presence and compassionate witnessing can be more healing than pressure to perform. Along the way, we connect faith, Scripture, and the daily choice to pause anger and choose love in a world that keeps rewarding outrage.
If you’re craving emotional peace, stronger relationships, and a faith-centered path to purpose, press play.
Subscribe, share this with a friend who feels unseen, and leave a review so more people can find the show. What’s one place you want to respond with more love this week?
To connect with or purchase any of books of Dr. Eleanor Halspel Portner you can do so on Amazon by searching under her name or visit her website at: https://nobleenergywellness.com/
To download a free chapter of host Sylvia Worsham’s bestselling book, In Faith, I Thrive: Finding Joy Through God’s Masterplan, purchase any of her products, or book a call with her, visit her website at www.sylviaworsham.com
Transcript:
If you’ve ever struggled with fear, doubt, or worry, and wondering what your true purpose was all about, then this podcast is for you. In this show, your host, Sylvia Warsham, will interview elite experts and ordinary people that have created extraordinary lives. So here’s your host, Sylvia Warsham.
Hey Lightbringers, it’s Sylvia Warsham. Welcome to Release Out Reveal Purpose. And today is Dr. Eleanor Haspel Porkner. And she’s here to talk about the Four Worlds. It’s a framework that she was put on mission to go public with in 2022 when she was faced with a pivotal moment. She’s at the bedside of her husband’s bed. He’s having open heart surgery. It’s a very trying time. She is saying a prayer and she hears a voice from God that says, go public with your work. She is a clinical psychologist. She’s been doing this work for many, many years. And she’s reviewed over 45,000 cases. And in this framework, there is an alignment piece similar to my work in In Faith I Thrive, something that God Himself told me, go public with this too. Mine is ego, mind, and soul, spirit, and the alignment piece of these three. She’s got the alignment piece of all four body, mind, spirit. And she has the science background. So without further ado, Dr. Eleanor, thank you so much for joining us on Released Albert Beal Purpose. Happy to be here with you, dear listeners. It’s a pleasure to have you. And I’m I’m really curious to hear the background of this framework, how it came about, that voice that you heard, what had happened prior to that work that now God is saying go public with us.
Well, as a clinical psychologist, I was my my real motivation to become a clinical psychologist was to use the skills of psychology
and of my background to help people. And when I finished my PhD at University of Chicago, I had studied with great psychologists and great child psychologists. And I had two young children. My children, when I finished my PhD, were two and three. And when they had tantrums, as two-year-olds will do, I didn’t know what to do with them. I didn’t know how to protect their soul instead of just saying, no, you can’t. And so I realized that I needed to change what I was doing as a as a psychologist. I didn’t want to teach college. I didn’t want to be in an ivory tower. I wanted to help people. So I did a postdoc and I opened, I got licensed, and I started practicing. And in the course of my practice, certainly starting initially with couples as a sex therapist, I realized, wait a minute, communication is state-specific. You cannot communicate mentally and hit the spirit of a person. If you’re talking a language of concrete reality, you’re not going to touch the soul. And when I was working with clients, what I found was that every single client who ever came to me in more than 50 years of clinical practice came because nobody listened to their soul. Nobody tuned in to who they really were. They were told what to do, how to be. Don’t this, don’t that, you can change your mind. But it wasn’t about that. It was about soul. It was about inner alignment. It was about what is your mission? Everyone wanted to know what I am here to do? What is my mission in life? What is wrong with me? And there’s nothing wrong with anyone. At three months of age, every human being has everything they need to be fully actualized. It’s our God-given right to be who we are and for people in our life to recognize who we are and to cherish who we are, the same way God cherishes us. And so in bringing up my children and my grandchildren observing them, I always wanted to honor the spirit of that person and to listen for what’s really right for you. Not what I think is right for you, but what resonates. What is your soul telling you is where you need to be? And where is your faith? Where are you going when you’re waiting to know what you know? And so what I always say to my clients is when you know what you know, and no one can tell you you don’t know, you’re not stubborn or selfish, you’re aligned. And in 1996, I was already versed in the tree of life. I had already studied astrology. I had all I was already a clinician, and I met the human design system and I studied it. And I thought, oh, this is really interesting. But when I did the science on it, I realized it was an incomplete, faulty system because it was labeling people. You’re this, you’re that, this is how you have to be. No, no, no, no, no, no. That’s disempowering. When we start labeling people, I never used the DSM when I was a psychologist. I wouldn’t say you have an anxiety disorder or you’re narcissistic. What is that about? So my work is empowering people to tap in to their spirit, to their core sense of who they are, and to live that way and to stand up for who they know themselves to be and to have courage. And living by soul takes courage. One of my books is called Living from Soul. And what I teach people is especially that emotional reactions are the energy of the blockage that we’ve felt for who we are. So when somebody gets angry, it’s usually that they haven’t been listened to, they haven’t been acknowledged, they haven’t been seen or heard or understood. So
we take a step back. And instead of getting reactive, I always say pause, breathe, find the compassion and love for that other person and listen to who they are. That would do so much healing in the world. So the four worlds are the mental waking world, the emotional angelic world, and I call it emotional angelic because it’s the world of higher consciousness. The physical biological world is the world of emotional reactions, where we get angry, or we get upset, or we get stressed. And then the spiritual world is the world where we’re one with everyone and we’re one with God. So I think many of your listeners, if they’re tuning into you, Sylvia, would be people with faith who have had direct experiences of God and of spirit and who know that we’re here with a higher purpose. And when we listen to that inner voice of wisdom, everything’s right with the world.
Found. I really love the work that you’re doing in the world. And I love that you paused enough in your prayer to hear the voice of God tell you, make it public. Because there seems to be a need for that right now. There’s too much reactivity in our world, people not listening, not not even leaning in when someone is opening their heart to them and holding the space that they’re in. Because sometimes that’s all they need. They’ve sometimes it’s not what we think they need to do because of our experiences, right? But I mean, we’re human beings, we want to help, and we don’t know how to do these things. So could you guide us on how to hold space for someone that’s opening their heart? Like, how do you train people to do this? People that you’ve taught through your practice, maybe through your books? Is there some guidance?|
Each world has its own communication. So if we’re talking as we are, we’re not, we’re we’re coming to each other from soul, but we’re not expecting each other to delve deep within our soul. We’re having a conversation. And there’s no stress in that conversation. We’re listening to each other. We want to understand each other. But where people get into difficulty is when they project an outcome on the other person. And also the field of psychology, as we know it, is talking a lot in a mental world language, visual, auditory, kinesthetic, NLP. What does it look like? If I say to you, what does faith look like? We’re no longer talking about faith. We’re talking about a mental construct about faith. But if we’re really talking about faith, we’re talking about something that almost can’t be described. It’s an inner feeling of peace, it’s an inner feeling of connection, and it’s an inner feeling of knowing, knowing with a K. Knowing because we know because we know. And it’s not intellectual and it can’t be explained. But everyone knows who they are. And when they’re not listened to, it hurts. What I came to out of my clinical practice was that using the wrong language in the wrong world keeps people stuck. So when I am working with someone and they’re talking from their soul, I’m gonna say to them, so given this, what do you know about this now? And I tune them into their inner core, not the mind, not the reactivity, but what do you know? So I could say to you, Sylvia, what do you know about your faith? It’s this clean question. It takes you internal as compared to what do you think faith is? Completely different modality. And so a lot of what I am about to teach practitioners and professionals is each language for each world because we’re moving children away from themselves. We’re moving children into intellect, not into spirit, and telling them to be busy all the time, not to take time to just look into each other’s eyes and see the soul.
Having been a former high achiever, I’m very much in agreement with you. I think children with all the activities we have them in, there’s no time for them to really tune in with others, with themselves, in nature, which is where you get to tune in inward and hear those voices. That voice from God is not going to be this burning bush that most people want because everything around us is noise. And our children, I have an 11-year-old and a 21-year-old. And it is, it’s hard to get them away from the noise without an enormous fight because everybody’s doing it. How do you think, Dr. Eleanor, can we start making the shift away from this?
Think it’s about parenting. It’s about teaching parents to listen to their children, to spend time with them. I’m personally horrified that children are being put into daycare at three months of age and their parents are not bringing them up. We have working parents who, disclosure, I’ve only had when I was in graduate school, I taught college for three years. Other than that, I never had a job in my life. I did what I loved. I loved what I did. I worked my own hours. I worked school hours so I could be home with my children, and I had a full practice. But I did it on my terms so that I could spend time with my family, with my children. We’d play games, we’d spend time, we’d look at each other, we would be with each other. I would spend two, three hours a day reading to my children. One child on each knee reading to them. Um and there was one time when my son was in high school and I was in the middle of doing a group,
and he said to me, Can I go do this? And I looked at him and I said, No, you can’t. He said, Why not? I said, you know, most parents are arbitrary. I’ve never been arbitrary with you. I want you to have an experience of an arbitrary parent who says no for no reason at all. He said, but it doesn’t make sense. I said, you’re absolutely right. It makes no sense whatsoever. But I’m gonna say no. And we went around like this for about 20 minutes, and then I said, okay, go. I just wanted you to experience what it was to not be listened to for once in your life. And it was a lesson for him. He has three children of his own now, and he has been a great parent listening to their soul and honoring each one for their own uniqueness. But how many schools or parents want the child to be in a mold and ignore what is really right for that person? And we need to back up, turn off the phones, turn off the electronics, and look at each other and be with each other and spend time with each other and talk. When we talk soul to soul, it’s an experience of unity, of spirit, between two human beings, and they come together as one. And there’s nothing quite as precious as connecting with the soul of another person and seeing that we can make a difference in the light in their eye, the joy in their heart, and the sense of empowerment that comes from being listened to. So you live a faith-based life. So I’m sure you’re bringing your children through to respect their own faith and to not have it be what somebody else wants it to be. Because we each have our own unique mission and our own unique relationship with the divine.
And at three months of age, every baby has been imprinted with the cosmic energy of the soul, and they know who they are.
So, what if you have a child that doesn’t know who they are and is stuck in a mental state of unworthiness, of they can’t see their truth, they can’t see their light, they can’t see beyond the thoughts. Let’s say they have rumination of thoughts, which is what we’ve seen a lot of children do.
I worked with one little boy when I was working at the Children’s Day School. And this little boy would come into my little cubicle, and he never said a word to me, not one word in a year of doing therapy with him. But he would take a pencil and he would make noises like things were being bombed. And all I would do was I would listen and I would mirror. And sometimes I’d say that was a loud one. Or he healed. He needed to get that out. He needed somebody not criticizing him for what he was doing. And when I left at the end of my term at the day school, he was so devastated to have me leave because I listened to him. I recognized him. And he probably had some experiences during the war that he was working through. But there were no words that this child had. And I didn’t ask him to speak. I acknowledged and sat with him and listened. And that empowered him and healed him. So there are children who come in with trauma, and we don’t need to fix them. We need to love them. And we need to listen to them and recognize what they want to tell us in whatever way they want to tell us that. You have two children. Each of them is very different, I’m sure. I knew when my children were born, within days, hours, who they were. Very different. My son, easy, you know, he’d wake up in the morning, I’d wait, I’d walk into his room and say, it’s not time to wake up, go back to sleep. He’d go back to sleep. My daughter would wake up, she’d climb out of her crib, and I would have to get up and be with her. And, you know, different, I couldn’t make one be like the other. They’re very different people. And respecting that differential in each of every individual is empowering. And for the listeners, you have an infinity sign on yourself. I use the infinity sign. It’s actually, it’s on the cover of one of my books. And I color code it for each of the four worlds. Because if we stand and if we move through the infinity sign, heel to toe between the legs, it balances the hemispheres of the brain. It balances the left and right side of the body. So there are things that we can do with children if they’re upset. We can hold their hands and move in figure eights, or we can bring our voice very calm and quiet, and we can talk to them in a soothing tone and say, What do you know about what you want now? The soul speaks in clean language. There’s no visual, there’s no auditory, and there’s no kinesthetic in the soul. There’s only light, there’s only love, there’s only kindness. And when we bring that to another person, there’s healing.
Which of your books would be the one to buy that would explain this further to us that are wanting to shift the living from soul? Okay.
That one is I went through all four worlds and I gave communication skills that speak to each world. So the biggest stumbling block for people, as mentioned in the Tree of Life, the Kabbalistic Tree of Life, which breaks the word that says we live in four worlds when we incarnate. And the place people get stuck is in emotional reactivity. Right now, cosmically, we are at a time where most people are being triggered emotionally. And we see that politically, with the anger, with the violence going on. That’s not conscious. When people are angry, when they’re bashing each other, when they’re disrespectful, that’s not conscious. That’s not loving. That’s not faith-based. That is lower consciousness. And it is if any of the listeners get emotionally reactive, get into arguments, stop, go within. Listen for the inner voice that says, wait, pause. This is another human being. It’s a soul you’re talking to. Stop being cruel. Stop being mean. Stop bashing another human being. Everyone is struggling in one way or another to be conscious. Facilitate the consciousness. Don’t make it hard. And so if somebody disagrees with you, don’t argue. What’s the point? Send love. Don’t speak. Let that person be and just be loving. You don’t lose anything by being loving. In fact, you gain. You gain peace within yourself. You gain connection with God. You feel love in your heart. And what can be better than that?
As you were speaking, the Holy Spirit was kind of coming up and referencing one of the verses from Scripture to me. And it was from James. The book of James has a lot of real-world application to it. And one of them is to it speaks to the pausing of the emotional reactivity of like to listen more, to not react, basically.
Exactly.
And because human anger does not produce the righteousness that God desires. And anger is what is tearing us apart in this world. It is keeping us from him completely because he’s love. He’s nowhere in this anger. And when people of certain religions, and I’m speaking to my religion being Christianity, you use the anger and you bash another human being without first pausing and leaning in and staying curious. There’s no way of convincing them to come on your side if you’re not even willing to lean in and stay curious to them. There’s there’s no way you’re gonna be able to do that peace. Right. And when we look at Christ when he was here on earth, he wasn’t someone that, and he could have, he had all the power in the world. He would still lean in.
He would still listen and speak to their soul and see their soul for what it was. I always go back to the woman in Samaria and she’s at the well and she’s by herself, and there’s Jesus just sitting there, okay. Can I have a you know, drink of water and trying to make normal conversation, you know? And she’s like, Why are you here? Like, nobody ever wants to be around me. Why are you here? And he’s like, Well, I just I want to talk to you. I I came to see you. I I detoured. My whole mission. Like at my own ministry. I’m here just to see you. And because I see your soul and I see your suffering. And I don’t want you to suffer like that. And I find that a lot of what you’re speaking about goes back to his word, his the way he is, and the way he’s asked you to communicate and make this public because it is speaking to what he wrote over what was written over 2,000 years ago. So this is talk about like ancient. I’m curious as to when he told you in 2022 make this public, what’s your initial reaction was? Like, how did you start is that when you started writing your books?
Is that when I was I had studied the human design system in 1996? And then in 1999, Ra Ruhu, who was given the system, asked my husband and myself to validate it scientifically. So I did. And I knew it was a faulty system, and I expanded and I had the four worlds, and I was teaching it and studying it and studying, you know, the tree of life and expanding and deepening, and it was my work, and I had already written books. But then we moved from California to South Carolina in 2021. And around the time we moved, my husband, his heart issues, got worse, and he needed open heart surgery. So we were remodeling a house. We had just moved into our new house, and I was getting it together, and you know, it was a new place to live. And I was still doing my charts and doing readings and had my practice with clients. And this particular night, he said to me, I feel like there’s a negative energy around me. Would you do something? I can’t breathe. So I said, get into bed and I’ll do a Jim Gore prayer. And I started doing figure eights. And my charts, my noble energy maps that are astrologically based on the four worlds, the timing of when different energy bodies come online, so to speak, in a baby. And I had recognized that what I had was a scientifically documented system for reading the energy field of a person. And I could document that psychologically, at three months of age, every baby has everything they need to be fully actualized. So I was just standing there doing my own thing, doing my figure eights. And the voice said, Your layout of charts is the four worlds. You know what it is, you know what you have. Go public. And I said to my husband, your breathing is related to past trauma because the mental waking world and the physical biological world are connected. The spirit and the higher consciousness are where you need to put your energy. And that will reduce the fear. That part of the reaction you’re having is fear of not being able to breathe. And so, out of these four worlds, I was able to come up with what he needed to do to get through what he was going through clinically. And so it was in that moment that God spoke to me and said, you know what you have. Because really, my work is to teach people that they’re spiritual beings, pretending not to be. You know, my husband and I met in India at Osho’s ashram. And Osho said at one point, you know, he went downhill down the road, but he said at one point, we’re all Buddhas, pretending not to be. That’s such a beautiful statement. That at the core of who we are when we’re born, we know who we are. God gives us life. It’s magic. And all we have to do is go inside and listen, and then we know. But if we listen outside ourselves, we never know. The answer is not outside, it’s inside.
There’s so much confusion on these topics. I’m I’m careful not to bring in unless it aligns with scripture, because there’s so much, there’s so many voices, and we know that the enemy can also pose as an angel of light. And I’m careful not to move through some of these disciplines. Like when you mention astrology, that’s one that’s specifically mentioned in scripture not to rely on because God rely on for prophecy. Prophecy.
You don’t the the astrology is interesting because it’s a very scientific discipline when it’s used properly. I never predict. I look at the energy. So, for example, when I look at how the energy gets imprinted into somebody’s aura cosmically, I can see, for example, that some people are very open. Like my husband, he’s a medical doctor, but he’s an empath. So he feels in his body what other people feel. And being able to show him that and to say to him, you know, Marvin, yes, you do pick up in your body what people feel. When somebody has a headache, you feel it in your body. So I don’t say to people, this is gonna happen to you. That would be irresponsible. But I can say to somebody, you know what? It takes you time to make a decision. Don’t make a decision before you know because you know. Or you tend to be experiencing the emotions of other people. Take a pause to know what belongs to you and what belongs to them. So used responsibly, it is not woo-woo, but used irresponsibly. I can’t listen to many of the astrologers on YouTube because they’re so fatalistic and so fear-mongering. It’s not like that. It’s it’s a it’s a valid, it’s as valid as looking at a baby’s development and saying, at three months of age, if your baby isn’t reaching for an object, be concerned. It’s simply timing. And the energies get laid down in certain developmental ways, and we can track those. We can track them physiologically, we can track them astrologically, we can track them. That doesn’t mean you
interpret. It means you know that it’s a marker. The same way we know the first trimester is a marker, the second trimester, the third trimester. Well, we have a fourth trimester. That is when a baby is in the first three months of life. They’re very vulnerable to the energies around them. And it’s important that parents listen to that baby and recognize likes and dislikes. If the baby squirms when somebody’s holding it, don’t put it in that baby, in that person’s lap consistently. Listen to your child. Listen to each other. When somebody is hurting, don’t push them. So it’s about compassion and kindness. And after all, isn’t that what Jesus taught?
Yes, he did. That’s the fruit of his spirit. The fruit of the spirit is kindness, gentleness, goodness, self-control, love, joy, peace, faithfulness. It’s been a pleasure to have you on the show, Dr. Eleanor. I’ve I’ve learned how to empower another human being simply by listening and holding space and listening to their soul and not sharing with them what I think they should do, but rather just tuning in and holding space. I think it was a beautiful lesson that that you did share with us from your books. Any last words of encouragement you want to leave the listeners with? And where can we find you if we want to purchase your books? My books are on Amazon.
Uh, you can just find them all under my name. And on my website, I do have a four-world assessment that’s free for anyone who wants to take it. It’s very important, listeners, that you balance the four worlds for yourself. Make sure you take time. I personally pray and meditate before I do anything else every morning. So align with yourself before you move out into the world and try to be something for other people. Because being with yourself and being with your own divinity will give you the strength and the wisdom and the energy to be present with other people who need you instead of imposing something on them. And that’s really the most important thing is listen.
Great deal of people would agree with you, Dr. Eleanor. Thank you so much for joining us on the least out review purpose. And for those you know how I usually sign off, which is to remember Matthew 5.14 to be the light. You know, God gives us a mission when we are born. We are fearless, wonder fearfully and wonderfully made in his image and his images of kindness and love and joy and peace. And when we stray from that, we’re in complete disalignment to who he created us to be. Turn inward, listen for his voice and only his voice, and he will guide you into your mission and to your purpose, that which you were created for. We’re all here to be not in competition, but rather in collaboration with each other to advance humanity and and and prepare us for what’s coming next. You know, our next chapter is eternal with him. And we are empowered by our Lord to daily step in to that authority and that power he gave us from the moment he sent his son to die on the cross. So thank you for any anyone and everyone tuning in. Have a wonderful and blessed rest of your week. Bye now. Thank you.
So that’s it for today’s episode of Release Doubt Reveal Purpose. Head on over to iTunes or wherever you listen and subscribe to the show. One lucky listener every single week who posts a review on iTunes. We’ll win a chance in the grand prize drawing to win a twenty five thousand dollar private VIP day with Sylvia Worsham herself. Be sure to head on over to sylviaworsham.com and pick up a free copy of Sylvia’s gift and join us on the next episode.