Some conversations feel scary until someone hands you the right words. We brought together two suicide attempt survivors, Deborah and Brian, to share the tools, language, and lived insight that help families break silence, reduce shame, and make safer choices when emotions run high.
Their prevention-first approach is built for real life: short lessons, tactile workbooks, and simple prompts that help kids separate powerful feelings from irreversible actions.
They share a simple, prevention-first framework that helps families talk openly about suicide, bullying, and big feelings. We show parents how to start hard conversations early, give kids a shared language for emotions, and use a tactile workbook to turn insight into action.
• five stages of intellectual development as a clear decision-making tool
• how vocabulary reduces shame and opens conversation
• social media, bullying, and hidden distress in high achievers
• why “wait one more day” helps disrupt catastrophic thinking
• early talks at home as prevention not reaction
• warning signs to watch for and when none appear
• practical prompts parents can use to begin
• program access, pricing, and school outreach in Alberta
• website link and direct email contact for support
If you would like to connect with Deborah and Brian please visit their website at: https://www.survivorsofhopelessness.com.
To download a free chapter of host Sylvia Worsham’s bestselling book, In Faith, I Thrive: Finding Joy Through God’s Masterplan, visit her website at www.sylviaworsham.com
Transcript:
SPEAKER_00:
If you’ve ever struggled with fear, doubt, or worry and wondering what your true purpose was all about, then this podcast is for you. In this show, your host, Sylvia Warsham, will interview elite experts and ordinary people that have created extraordinary lives. So here’s your host, Sylvia Warsham.
SPEAKER_04:
Hey Lightbringers, it’s Sylvia Warsham.
SPEAKER_01:
Welcome to Release Out Reveal Purpose. And today is Brian Wardell and Deborah Susan, and they’re talking about a subject that is very near and dear to my heart: suicide prevention. And I find it interesting the timing because this is a topic that’s been coming up quite a bit lately, especially in teenagers, because in puberty their minds start to change, and that’s when the thoughts start to rage, and the rage begins, right? The hormonal changes. And I’ve been it’s been in my heart to talk about this because I have a little girl, she’s already a pre-tween, if you will, she’s 10 years old, and I know that I’ve read articles, especially in girls with ADD, and that’s something that my daughter suffers from. It is something that they’ve talked extensively about because suicide is a very real issue. So without further ado, thank you for joining us today, Brian and Deborah Susan. Please tell us how and why this has been your mission in life.
SPEAKER_03:
Well, I will start that as I am a teen suicide attempt survivor. Now it was a long, long time ago. It was back in 1972, but I had an excellent doctor at the time who showed me that I had a right to live, that my the way my parents treated me was in fact wrong. And that is what put me on a path to wanting to live. That’s a lot of therapy. Now I didn’t go every year, every month, but off and on, um, 1972 to 2016. And when I received that healing and I was able to think clear, and it I was so grateful. And I mean I had now lived 10 years with this freedom and none of that baggage anymore. And I just felt that if I had known or if I had had a format or a framework to know how to make right choices and good choices in life, I would have never considered suicide. So I put together the program so that I could pass it on. Because you know how they say, if I knew then or I know now, I would have done things differently. Well, my what I say is kind sight is 2020. So let our past experience be your best teacher to these students. They don’t have to go down the rabbit hole, they don’t have to experience all the severities if they understand life’s cycles. And that’s what we developed. It’s called five stages of intellectual development to keep it separate from emotional, spiritual, uh, physical. But we of course address the feelings because the feelings are what’s behind the decisions, right?
SPEAKER_01:
Yeah, we know that the feelings that promote the reactions, and then the reactions give us the results, right? So if we have a reaction of I need to kill myself, I will. And I’ve actually talked a lot to my daughter and my son about this because they both suffer from my suffer, my my boy suffers from ADHD. He actually does have the hyperactivity to it. My daughter doesn’t, but I remember just reading article upon article saying when hormones shift everything and their minds change, they do have those thoughts. And I’ve I’ve addressed some of these things with my daughter. There are times that your thoughts are gonna tell you something, and that’s not mean that you go and you do it. And um and peer pressure is another thing that kids, you know, they do some silly challenges and they think, oh, it’s not gonna kill me, it’s not gonna do anything to me. And then lo and behold, it does, it kind of fulfills its its own destiny. And we we actually had the opportunity to open up the subject of suicide just recently, unfortunately, because a a preteen girl took her own life. Um, it was a girl that um I did not know, but in my heart of hearts as a parent, my heart just sank when I read the article because she was known to a good friend of mine, her daughter had been her best friend in elementary school, and it just hit closer to home. And I remember just taking the opportunity, I knew my daughter might hear about the incident because it happened in the same district as my kids go to school, and I figured it’s a great opportunity for me to just discuss this and take the shame out of discussing something because I know that culturally speaking, sometimes people they don’t want to talk about these topics because they’re taboo in their mind. Brian, can you share how you guys um remove that taboo from suicide?
SPEAKER_02:
Well, I mean, it’s a matter of um giving people permission to talk about it in a sense. I mean you know, by talking about it sometimes just bringing up a subject sometimes invites people to then uh speak of their own experiences or things they’ve heard. I definitely found that. Um also giving people the vocabulary that perhaps they lack uh is a uh a big part of it too. The they the royal they um don’t know uh don’t know how to express these uh in these feelings, but if you can if you can give them a vocabulary for it, all of a sudden they come pouring out. Uh so that’s something that we try to do is speak openly, matter-of-factly, uh but also with a little bit of warmth and humor and humanity as well.
SPEAKER_04:
Humanity, I think, is the key word there.
SPEAKER_01:
It’s just making it to where we’re all connected, you know, and we all have faced difficult chapters, if you will. I know that if I didn’t have my mother close to me in the years that I was being extensively bullied in high school, it would have led possibly to a to maybe a suicide attempt. Um, but she was so close to me and she just stayed close to me and and was my my one true friend throughout it all. I had teachers that would protect me too in their classrooms because they knew of the bully. They knew um, and despite going to administration, nothing was ever done. And and I know how tell me, Brian, because I don’t know you very well. I heard Deborah’s story. How are you personally connected to this mission?
SPEAKER_02:
Well, uh, I attempted suicide in 2019. Um I had been a caregiver for my mother uh for a number of years, and I had struggled with depression and anxiety my whole life and lacking a feeling of purpose and belonging, and being a caregiver for my mother in in that I found that purpose. But then she was diagnosed with terminal cancer after getting weaker and weaker, and uh that feeling that purpose yanked away from me and not being able to imagine a future that I would want to be a part of, I made the decision to end my own life. Um thankfully I survived. I’m in a wheelchair and missing my right leg, but um in a better mental state than I was for decades. Uh and so um uh now Deborah contacted me because she was friends with a woman who had been friends with my mother and so she heard of my situation through that, she contacted me and we spoke for a bit and she said, Hey, would you be you know, do you want to use your experience to help stop other people? And it’s like, yeah, that’s I’d been thinking I wanted to do that. And so that’s my connection.
SPEAKER_01:
And I find it interesting because I’m I’m a woman, like a faith, and I do know that our purpose is our divine purpose. The reason why we’re here on this earth doesn’t come linearly, like we sometimes go through these dark chapters for a purpose, and now we are put in a position to be able to relate to the feelings that these kids are feeling or these adults are feeling, that desperation, that overwhelm, that just the thoughts just overwhelm you. And if you do suffer from anxiety or OCD, we know that thoughts just come out of nowhere, and there’s like not much we can do to truly. I mean, we can do there’s steps that we can do, and there’s therapies that we can apply to kind of minimize the amount of thoughts and how we listen to our thoughts and whether we listen or talk ourselves into a different state. But regardless of that, I’m I’m grateful that that Deborah Susan came into your life and said, Hey, I think you have a purpose here. Do you guys see this as being your divine purpose and what you’ll do until you graduate into heaven? Or is there something else that you guys are working on currently?
SPEAKER_03:
The short answer is absolutely yes. Uh, we definitely do because I had just been thinking, I put the program together, and I was looking at it and considering promotional and advertising, and I thought to myself, you know, to present this program, I really should have a male-female balance. And I’m thinking, nobody find a man who first of all experienced and survived suicide, and who would be willing to talk about that. No. And and would would be willing to work with me on this. And I’m asking like the universe this question when uh my my friend Rosemary called me and told me about Brian. And I said, Okay then. And I walked into his room, and it was like something in the back of my mind said, There he is.
SPEAKER_01:
Yeah, we usually feel it in our gut. Like it’s an instinct, it’s it’s intuitive hit that we get on this is the person we’ve talked. Like, I talk to God every day, and it’s like, send me someone I’m I’m here to bless today. Just make it very clear for me. And yesterday he made it real crystal clear, like who I was meant to reach out to. And I came back from that meeting, and I remember sitting with my husband. I had skipped dinner because I said, you know, this may be long. And I got back and I was just I I’m someone that allows the Holy Spirit to kind of speak through me. There are words that have come out of my mouth that are not mine. One time I remember talking at the end of one of my interviews, like as a guest. At the end, they said, you know, what additional comments do you want to say? And I just remember it was such an out-of-body experience. And the words were about suicide and about reminding people of their light, that they’re here for a purpose, and that their light is very much needed. And if they’re even contemplating suicide, that is not of God, this is not what He wants, and they barely serve a purpose here on earth. So I’m I came back yesterday and was just like I had had another out-of-body experience, and it was so amazing because that intuition, when we when we get pulled in a certain direction, that’s what we’re meant to do in our life. And that’s why we are in this moment in time talking about suicide prevention. Why? Because there’s so many kids out there that this is the only solution they see. And I and why this is so passionate for me is that that because there’s so many bullying cases, and you and you read these cases, it’s heartbreaking. Yes. Heartbreaking. Are you guys working with schools to talk about suicide prevention currently?
SPEAKER_03:
Or not as yet. We are definitely talking to the powers that be that would make that possible, but yeah, there is a process that has to be adhered to uh for anything to go into uh we are in Calvary, Alberta, Canada. So we’re in Alberta, yeah. So there’s processes, every place has it, and so you just have to follow that and their timing and their pacing. Um, but what I will say in in uh relation to what you were expressing there, we um as well recognize the third dimension, which is the spiritual dimension. However, our program is designed for students. This is people as young as age eight. And so to keep it crisp and focused and to give them something that they can work with. We have a physical workbook that they can write in, draw on, do whatever with that goes with the instructional video. And that is just a component, a small component that they can use. Now, the spiritual experience they have, their age, you know, we we also talk to adults and and teenagers, uh, 19, 20-year-old people. So everybody has their own individual experience regarding the spiritual, etc. And we want to leave that with them. All we want to do is provide this simple tool. It’s like, and and we have simplified it so much. Uh, it’s called the five stages of intellectual development again to keep it separate from all the other uh uh dimensions. And yeah, for students and parents to use as a means of communication, it opens the conversation, it gives solid grounding to the thought patterns and how to deal with those thought patterns and the feeling. I’m sorry, go ahead. I was just gonna say, as far as bullying goes, now Brian, that is his area of expertise. He suffered a great deal of bullying. So um he has been a perfect balance for our uh presentation in that regard.
SPEAKER_01:
I’d like to shift the conversation that way because I know there’s parents out there that might be listening who have uh pre-pubescent children and who might have some of these other combinations. ADD is a very common um affliction here in the United States. I don’t know about Canada, but here for sure. And so, Brian, I really I’m interested in hearing more about what tips can you provide parents to get the conversation started with their children.
SPEAKER_02:
Well, quite remarkably, um there is a lady that I worked with, and uh Deborah and I uh she has a podcast. Deborah and I shared our program with her, and when she introduced that um when she introduced that program to her children, uh her son immediately said, Oh, I think my friend so-and-so should take this with us because uh he just recently attempted suicide for the fourth time and the co- mother the mother the co-worker of mine and uh oh yeah, you know, because he’s he’s gay and his boyfriend, um you know, like virtual online boyfriend had just recently uh taken his own microphone. And like my coworker knew none of that. And so Jeff, like I I mentioned before, sometimes just introducing the subject and uh can create uh the most the most incredible opportunities to have conversations on these things. Uh again, not most of the time not happy, cheerful, fluffy conversations that uh we in North America typically enjoy, but very important ones. And uh so yeah, uh I mean people have asked me plenty of times how so you know, if you don’t mind me asking, how’d you lose your leg? Was it a uh you know, uh a traffic accident or something? And I tell them, well no, it was actually a suicide attempt. And oh, you know, I attempted suicide back when I was twenty or um you know, I recently lost somebody, or you know, all of a sudden it just it seems to, you know, it opens the floodgates and all of a sudden people start talking about this. So when I talk about giving permission, um you know, they people are taking these opportunities to have these discussions. And sometimes children will open up about these things when the topic is broached, but if it’s not, all of that just stays and I mean that’s that’s not good.
SPEAKER_04:
Fonts under pressure often explode in time.
SPEAKER_01:
Well, yeah, no, at least just broaching the subject. I just know that some people really struggle with even broaching the subject. So if they are struggling with that, Brian or Deborah Susan, I’m not sure who wants to take this question, what other tips can you provide them? Because I know that, well, that’s my question.
SPEAKER_03:
Well, I would like to say that our website is a good place to go. Uh, it’s called uh it’s survivorsofopelessness.com. And at the very bottom of that website, there is a music video that is more uh inclined towards intervention than prevention. But our program is what we call pure prevention because we are administering that program before they have the thoughts or before the emotions, the pubescent emotions start to come into play and overwhelm.
unknown:
So on that website, it talks about our program.
SPEAKER_03:
You can see a trailer, uh there’s also copies of the workbooks, you can see the workbooks, and it’s very affordable. It’s$50 for the one-hour instructional video and three workbooks, one parent copy and two student copies. And you can download those right away if you want to on a PDF file. Or you can notify us and we will send you uh hard copies, which we do recommend. The hard copies are so nice. They open up to a 11 by 17 format, and uh so they’re nice and big, lots of room for drawing and taking notes and things, and it just allows the student and the participant to handle the information, to actually touch it and feel it, and and include more senses than just listening, right? And discussion as well. We recommend that you show segments at a time and then discuss it with your children, discuss that segment. What did they think and what did they want to write in the workbook?
SPEAKER_04:
So what have you found um to be true about the work you’ve been doing in regards to where are the common themes you’re seeing with these kids? Why are they attempting suicide? Brian, did you want to take that? Because I’ve been talking a lot.
SPEAKER_02:
Um I mean it’s the world is uh more is is faster paced and more stressful um or at least there are more stressors than there have ever been. The introduction of uh social media creates an added pressure um in in many ways. Uh one that presents an inaccurate uh view of life because you get these snapshots that people typically post when things are at their best and you know, uh the way our brains work, we tend to perceive that as being normal then. And uh you know, we see how we fail to measure up to that. Uh the fact too that because, you know, we talked about bullying or you know, the situation with bullying, imagine how much worse that would have been if you couldn’t even escape that at home. Because you go online, you know, to to your social network, whatever that is, and people are bad mouthing you and and and slandering you and and telling you these horrible things, uh, even there as well. So you can’t get away from it. Um and just yeah, there’s just so there’s so much of everything. Um and yeah, the pressure is on these poor children.
SPEAKER_04:
Yes.
SPEAKER_02:
And uh well, you know, whatever other factors there may be as well, but those are big ones.
SPEAKER_01:
I remember the uh the girl that took her own life. There were some threads that I read that said she was a bright, straight A student, she was very well liked by her peers. Um, but then in recent months, her parents had noticed some changes. Can you speak more of what changes parents need to be on the lookout for to maybe prevent uh an attempt?
SPEAKER_03:
Well, parents today, how you know, households are very busy, and quite often parents and children are a little more than ships passing in the night when you’re taking them to their extracurricular activities. I know we go through that here quite a bit. But what I would recommend is if there’s change in behavior, uh that is the first thing. If a child who was very active and gregarious and outgoing is suddenly withdrawn and spending a lot more time in their room by themselves, they’re not as involved with the family anymore. Uh that’s that’s an obvious one. But what’s really uh even more important is that nine times out of ten you won’t see it. Parents, I have heard so many times, and Brian can acknowledge this too, we didn’t see it coming. Because they are active, they’re the star of the football team, they’re the top cheerleader, everything is going so wonderfully, and they’re stepping back and thinking, how am I doing this? Because school sets you up to succeed if you are involved, and it offers all these opportunities to be in a band, to be in a play, to be in a sports team. And if you are good at something, then they support, you know, and you just get pushed into this, and and suddenly you go, it’s called imposter syndrome, and you go, I don’t know how I’m doing this. How can I keep this going? So there will be no change, you will not see a difference until boom, they’re gone. So you have to be the innovator, the parents have to have the adult strength to approach their children about this subject, and our program makes that really easy, really easy if you go to the website and you can get started there. So if I had a magic bullet or a quick fix that I could say, when you see this, do that. No, when your child at age 10 already, you are seeing preteen, right? That’s time to start talking about these things.
unknown:
Okay.
SPEAKER_03:
And introduce you taught your child to cross the street safely. Yeah. Who told you to do that? Did you wait until your child ran out into the street before you’re talking? No. You know they have to be taught how to do that. This is the same thing. Parents have to be the innovators.
SPEAKER_02:
Okay. Yeah, and if I may say too, yeah, but something Deborah and I have been countered far too often is um um parents telling us, I don’t want to talk to my child child about suicide because I’m afraid of putting ideas in their head. Well, hate to tell you you folks, but uh those thoughts are there, you know, and it’s just like with um sex ed and drug education and and all of that, you know where would you like them to be getting this information from? Um you know, a friend of mine, you know, asked me to talk to her child because their child um admitted to them one time that they had a plan for how they were going to take their own life if they made that decision. And yeah. So I mean these these thoughts are out there.
SPEAKER_01:
Yeah, they are, and and I did want to ask the last question before we kind of say some last-minute comments. The last question is this since both of you are survivors of suicide attempts, what were the thoughts that were going through your mind?
SPEAKER_03:
I will start because I will be brief, and Brian’s story is so much better. Um, mine was a simple I’m done with this, this is it, I’m doing this. I washed down as many pills as I could find with a bottle of vodka. And I had been thinking about suicide since age 10. I had tried it at age 12 and failed miserably. So when I finally decided it was for the moment, this is it, I’m doing this, boom, and I did it right then and there. Because I had everything. I needed uh to do it like they were in my fingertips. So that was my experience. Now Brian’s is a little bit different.
SPEAKER_04:
Okay, Brian.
SPEAKER_02:
Don’t uh don’t overpromise so that I can under deliver there, Deborah. But uh yeah, it was like I said, I had been struggling with um you know, uh feelings of uh worthlessness, feeling like I uh I wasn’t really that important. You know, the looking after my mom was the important thing that I had to do. And when that I felt that had been snatched away from me, I went into free-fall. Uh but the the morning that I attempted suicide, uh I woke up feeling particularly low, feeling particularly hopeless. Uh and uh thinking, you know, thinking like I’m I was trying, searching uh for a future that you know, hope trying to find hope for the future and I couldn’t find any. All I could imagine were futures where I was a uh a burden on other people. They would resent me for it and I would be miserable. And so I you know, thought that I reasonably and rationally came to the conclusion that um that taking my own life was the kindest thing, the best course of action available to me, uh, for myself and others. Um yeah, and now I I had no alcohol or drugs in my system other than uh coffee and a peanut butter sandwich. Um and I thought about what okay, how could I do it? Well, there’s a uh a train bridge that goes over a uh a highway, but it’s got a a wide dirt shoulder, so yeah, and that’s fairly high up, so I’ll just go there and hit myself over the side and land in the dirt and you know, I won’t be in the way of uh traffic. They can just you know, they can come and collect my my body and I’ll just disappear. Yeah, that’s what I wanted. Uh and uh well I was I was seen going over the side, I guess. And so those folks immediately called uh called ambulance for me. And uh yeah, I mean I uh Deborah tells me uh the way I related it to her, I died twice on the operating page. Um uh so because I was I had a lot of of broken bones and injuries and blood loss. And so it was pretty rough, but they saved me. I lived and you know what now I actually think I do think that I was spared, that God spared me.
SPEAKER_01:
Well, yeah, when it’s not your time, it’s not your time. And there’s a purpose you’re meant to fulfill, and you will fulfill it by the time you graduate into I always say graduate into heaven. It is a form of graduation. Life’s journey is we all go through dark chapters, we all go through light chapters, and we all learn as we journey through life, and then we understand our purpose as time goes on. And you found your purpose, it seems, with Deborah Susan. Um, any last-minute comments you guys want to share with the listeners of release outreve purpose?
SPEAKER_03:
Um, I just wanted to make one comment. Um, when Brian told me his story, I was I was just shocked because I’m very typical. Generally, a suicide attempt is a split-second decision to stop the pain.
SPEAKER_04:
You’ve had enough, this is it, I’m gonna do it. Now, there’s probably a lot of prior thought about it, but um not a whole lot of planning.
SPEAKER_03:
Whereas Brian was thinking about this while he was having his breakfast, having his coffee, we have to understand we’re in happily Albert Canada, where in December it’s very brisk. We have the blueest skies other than uh Hawaii. I think Hawaii is the only place that has bluer skies than Alberta. But he walked for 10 minutes to get to the spot where he wanted to jump.
SPEAKER_04:
Wow.
SPEAKER_03:
Ten minutes would have stopped me. I didn’t even know I didn’t have to do it right now, you know. But he demonstrates that once the decision is made, a person will do it. So, parents, please step to the plate, teach and talk to your children about this the same way you taught them to cross the street safely.
SPEAKER_04:
I mean last minute um things you want to share, Brian?
SPEAKER_02:
Yeah, um I mean it’s it’s a matter of perspective. It was uh it was after I really received s uh so much love and support from family and friends uh and realized that my brain had been lying to me. Uh that I really turned aro you know, it wasn’t when I woke up in the hospital that I thought, oh, thank goodness I’m alive. I was pretty unsure at that point. It wasn’t until some days later uh that I realized that, you know, kind of slapped my face and oh wow, you know, boy was I mistaken. And that’s you know, we have uh we have this our this motto of wait one more day and then another. Feelings are very powerful and we don’t mean to discount your emotions when you talk about intellectual development. The thing with feelings is that they can change very momentarily and sometimes they can be based on you know, very strongly based in false information. Uh I have a tendency and have long had the tendency to catastrophize based on, you know, whatever, oh this is gonna be horrible, and then my brain it goes down the rabbit hole of imagining just how bad things could be and and seeing that as the inevitable outcome, uh, which is you know not a a good basis for decision making, especially when it may be the last decision you ever make. So we want to help people to have their their reasoning ability and their emotions kind of you know work together and checks and balances. I know you guys love that down in the US. Uh so yeah, that’s the thing. Wait one more day. And you know, that’s not just about suicide, that’s about anything. Anything big, you know. Ooh, you know, that’s I really want that.$2,000. Can I afford that? Ooh, but I really want it, well, maybe sleep on it. Think about it.
SPEAKER_01:
Um large decisions really require a time of reflection. And and really asking, you know, how however you guys like if if you are spiritual people asking God, like, show me, reveal to me why am I feeling like this, help me to see my worth, help me to find my worth in you. Uh that’s something as as kids, as parents, I think it’s important for us to always just keep it in the forefront of our mind. Um, if we wanted to reach you both, because we’re parents to like young children, how can we reach you? And what’s your website?
SPEAKER_04:
Yes, again, the website is survivors of hopelessness.com.
SPEAKER_03:
And at the bottom of that website, there is a button that you can click on and it will allow you to email us directly. So we answer all of our emails that come in, and especially those that are asking questions about the program before they purchase it or before they consider it. So yeah, please do not hesitate.
SPEAKER_01:
Wonderful. Thank you both so much for being courageous enough to share your story of survival, of suicide attempts, because it’s an important subject right now across the world, really, for our children to really understand that they are they have light inside of them, they have purpose. They’re here for a reason. I’m getting emotional because I’ve I’ve seen so many kids, I’ve read so many stories of children taking their life. It just tugs at my heartstrings. And I it tugs at my heartstrings for the parents that are left behind because they feel so guilty later. They don’t know uh much what they can do about it. But for anyone listening to this episode today, please remember you are a light in this world. You have a purpose. It is not something to be taken lightly. You have a reason why you’re here on earth. We thank God for both Brian and Deborah Susan that they stopped that attempt, but they are here today to share their wonderful mission with parents and children and hopefully schools across Canada. And if you ever decide to come to the United States, I know schools would be more than happy to invite you in through the doors because bullying is such a such a topic, uh, such a hot topic here in school districts across the United States. It is something that all districts need a ton of help with, and and this support is very much needed. So thank you both for for your stories of transformation, for your purpose and your mission. And for those listening, remember Matthew 5.14.
SPEAKER_04:
Be the light. Have a wonderful week. Stay safe. Love y’all. Bye now.
SPEAKER_00:
So that’s it for today’s episode of Release Doubt Reveal Purpose. Head on over to iTunes or wherever you listen and subscribe to the show. One lucky listener every single week who posts a review on iTunes. We’ll win a chance the grand prize drawing to win a twenty-five thousand dollar private VIP day with Sylvia Worsham herself. Be sure to head on over to sylviaworsham.com and pick up a free copy of Sylvia’s gift and join us on the next episode.