A love story can end on earth and still keep shaping lives. Michelle Bader Ebersole takes us from a whirlwind engagement to a rare cancer diagnosis, through amputation, parenthood, and the long quiet of hospice during lockdown. When doctors say “terminal,” she and her three kids choose presence over perfect plans—Dream Foundation trips, nightly movies, popcorn, and a final, tender surprise.
The morning Luke dies, a worship song about heaven plays as the room fills with calm. Later, at a grief retreat, Michelle receives a vivid vision of that moment from Luke’s perspective—no pain, total peace, and Jesus hovering in the corner. That insight reframes fear and becomes a balm for others, asking what their loved one felt at the end.
From there, we trace the hard pivot into early widowhood: identity shock, solo parenting, and the choice to make healing a daily practice. She demystifies grief myths, explains why “keeping busy” doesn’t work, and offers better language and actions for friends who want to help.
Purpose grows from the rubble. Michelle co-launches Widowed 2 Soon Podcast, builds a nonprofit called Widow Goals, trains leaders to run local groups across the U.S. and Canada, and hosts retreats that gather dozens for worship, tools, and community. Her book and workbook flip the script—10% story, 90% practical steps—covering everything from getting out of bed to solo parenting, reentering social life, and dating with wisdom.
If you’re navigating loss—or love someone who is—you’ll leave with grounded hope and concrete next steps. Hear how pain becomes purpose, how faith and community make the load lighter, and how to show up for those carrying invisible weight. If this conversation helped you, share it with a friend, subscribe, and leave a review to support future episodes.
To connect with Michelle, click on her linkTree and connect to all her resources at linktr.ee/michellebader or on her website https://widowgoals.org/
To download a free chapter of host Sylvia Worsham’s bestselling book, In Faith, I Thrive: Finding Joy Through God’s Masterplan, purchase any of her products, or book a call with her, visit her website at www.sylviaworsham.com
Transcript:
SPEAKER_01:
If you’ve ever struggled with fear, doubt, or worry, and wondering what your true purpose was all about, then this podcast is for you. In this show, your host, Sylvia Warsham, will interview elite experts and ordinary people that have created extraordinary lives. So here’s your host, Sylvia Warsham.
SPEAKER_03:
Hey Library, it’s Sylvia Warsham. Welcome to Released Out Reveal Purpose.
SPEAKER_02:
And today is Michelle Bader Ebersoll. Grief. This is gonna be the topic of today’s podcast. But it’s not just about grief, it’s about pain to purpose because sometimes we’re caught in this first life, in this first act, and we think this is it for us. And then something happens that just wakes us up to the possibility of rising from that pain. Michelle went through the most unimaginable loss, losing her spouse and raising three teenagers. I was telling Michelle, I was like, I’m amazed, truly amazed, how she managed to find the strength and the courage.
SPEAKER_03:
And they both share the same faith.
SPEAKER_02:
But I’m sure in those dark days she questioned whether God was with her, because we all do. Sometimes it just the doubts can really cloud and make it dark in our hearts and souls, and then there’s a glimmer of light, and in that glimmer of light is where we start to take baby steps out of that darkness. I’ve been not where Michelle has been, because I’ve never lost a spouse, but I have lost in my life, and loss and grief they go truly hand in hand because love it’s an expression of the love that we lost, and we gotta pick up the pieces, and we know that God is going to pick up those pieces and use it for his purpose, and that’s why Michelle is here today, because she wants to share this amazing story of transformation. So, Michelle, thank you so much for joining us on release outreal purpose. Yes, thank you so much for having me.
SPEAKER_06:
I’m excited to be here today.
SPEAKER_02:
Yeah, I’m excited to have you, and as I spoke and very heartfelt, I felt the presence of the Holy Spirit within my heart space and right here in my face. So I know he’s here. Yes. And I know that you have an a truly remarkable journey that you want to share with us. So please dive in. Oh, thank you.
SPEAKER_06:
Yes, um, to understand my story, we kind of have to go way back in time to get the full picture of all of these things. But, you know, my life is never where I thought it would be. You know, the older I get, the more that me and my friends were like, yeah, this isn’t where we thought we’ve all been through stuff, like all of us now, right? And to on your point about grief, grief is the change of any pattern or a loss in your life. So we have all, every single person listening, you’ve experienced grief. So this, you know, all of this story, it applies to you because we’ve all been there. So I want to take it way back um to high school. You have to to get the full picture where I met Luke, my first husband. Um, Luke and I were in high school together. We never dated, but we were friends. And then four years later, I came, he was a year above me. So I guess five years from when he graduated, I came uh back from college, ran into him through mutual friends. Um, three months later, we were engaged. Like it was just this like crazy, like we knew right away that we wanted to get married. It’s totally God’s timing. I can look back at that now and see that. And then we got married a year from our first date. And before we got married, he was a mail carrier. Um, so kind of give you he was 25, I was 24, give you a little frame of reference there. And um, he had a walking route and he noticed a lump in his ankle, and he went to the doctor and they were like, You’re young, it’s tendonitis, don’t worry about it. Well, it kept getting bigger, and then finally, um we uh he had it biopsied, and they said it is mesin chymal chondrosarcoma, a very rare bone cancer. So we were completely shocked. I mean, I never thought he would have cancer. He was 25, I was 24, we had just gotten married. Oh, we’d also just gotten pregnant like two months after we got married. There was so much going on, and um, I was like, this isn’t real, you know. I I went through some anger at that point in my life because all of my friends were just getting married, having babies, as was I, but their husbands were healthy. It was a really difficult time for me. So we dove into treatment. Um, we didn’t know anything, we just did whatever the doctor said because we were so young, and he started chemotherapy, and it um it didn’t work. Like it just didn’t shrink the tumor, it just made him sick and affected the rest of his life. Um, so then they said, okay, you have a choice. You can have a surgery where we remove the tumor, but you’ll wear a special boot and there’s a high chance it could come back, or we can do a below-the-knee amputation. So a lot of prayer and seeking counsel, we decided on the below-the-knee amputation because he was like, you know, we’re having a baby and I want to live as long as possible. And I’m like, Yeah, me too. I want you to live as long as possible. So um that was May 7th of 2004, when he had his leg amputated, and we always considered that his cancer-free day because thankfully the cancer was nowhere else in his body. So he had his leg amputated, which completely changed him. He was like all-star athlete, like really um athletic, and to lose a leg was so hard on him, not only physically but emotionally. Um, he had to learn to walk again. There was a lot of pain associated with it. Most people know about this. It’s called phantom pain. You can feel like your leg is on fire or um it’s being like cut. It’s like these nerves that are still firing in your leg where it’s amputated. It was a really, really difficult time. Um, and he ended up, he went back as a mail carrier, like with a driving route, but it was still too much on him physically. And so I had to work full-time. My dream was to be a stay-at-home mom. Um, my son was six weeks old, Hayden, when I had to go back to work because Luke wasn’t working. And so that was another layer of like, this isn’t fair. I want to be home with my baby. I’d have to bring in the pumps and pump at lunchtime. And I was like, I just want to be home with my baby. You know, I had a lot of this isn’t fair when I was young. Um, so then we went on um to have two more kids. So in three and a half years, we had three kids because the doctors also said we probably couldn’t have more kids, but we could. Um, so we had my oldest uh was three and a half, and then we had an 18-month-old and a newborn, and that was a crazy time. Um, but it was very joyous. There’s a lot of great things about that time period. But Luke never fully recovered. He was sick the rest of his life with all kinds of things. So the chemo really hurt his immune system. So he’d get every little sickness, he developed diabetes, cirrhosis, pancreatitis, and so much more. So he was sick on and off our whole marriage. But the cancer wasn’t there. So we just lived life as best as we could. There was a lot of, it was a hard time in my life, a lot of financial pressure, um, a lot of pressure on me to do pretty much everything. He wasn’t able to help a lot with the kids. I mean, he did at home, but like as far as rides and this and that, he was sick a lot. Um, so fast forward 13 and a half years, and um, he notices like he’s having some pain in what he thought was his liver. And since he had cirrhosis before, he went in to get a scan and they scanned all of his um, like the front of him, and they found some tumors in his chest, in his lungs. And so we knew it was bad, and they told us, you know, this is terminal. Like this is, you know, we’re gonna do the best we can, but this is terminal. So we sat down with our kids. That was such a hard conversation. I believe they were 9, 11, and 13 at the time, and they knew about his cancer. So I actually wrote a book um after his first cancer explaining the whole thing. Like I wanted to write it down while I was fresh. So they had read about his first cancer journey, they knew all about it. And so sitting them down and telling them like it’s back, that was such a hard conversation. But telling them, like, we’re gonna, you know, we’re gonna fight this. He did not want to do chemo, but we couldn’t find anything else. Like we looked for all kinds of alternative therapies. There really wasn’t for his kind of cancer. Um, so clinical trials, there was nothing. Um, so sitting them down and telling them was really heartbreaking, but we went in with a good attitude, like, we’re gonna fight this, um, we’re gonna pray for healing. Um, and I did, you know, start telling them as it progressed, like healing may be in heaven. Like we know he will be healed. You know, I had people tell me, like, you should just tell them he’s gonna be healed no matter what. You’ve got to have that strong faith. I’m like, I have faith, but I’m not setting up to hate God. I don’t know God’s plan. I want him to be healed on earth, but I don’t know. So um we went down this path of chemo, and you know, it was it was way worse this time with having kids watch him throw up and lose his hair and get weak and all of the things. So this time, like, it’s not just me. I’ve got three young kids, like um two teenagers, one almost teenager, like taking them through this. And it was um, it was only got strength, really, that I was able to do it. I was still working, taking care of them, trying to help Luke with all his stuff. And eventually it got to a place where the doctor said there’s nothing else we can do. Um, it’s time to just have quality of life. And we really worked on quality of life. We um found this place called the Dream Foundation. They grant last wishes for terminal adults. And up until that point, I’d only heard of that for kids, but a friend found this for me. And the five of us had never been on a plane together. We just couldn’t afford it. And we went to Disneyland and had this beautiful time. We have such beautiful pictures and memories from that time, also some hard ones because he was sick. Um, but such a great memory. And then he was a huge um University of Oregon, like Oregon Doc fan football. So we got to go to their games, go down on the field, go to the locker room. Like, we just really lived life the best that we could. And he was slowly getting worse. Eventually went on hospice. Um, and we were with hospice for 11 months. Like I saw it as something that was VIP care. That’s how I got Luke to do it. I’m like, you no longer have to go to the doctor, they come to us. It doesn’t mean you’re dying right now. We can reevaluate in six months. Like, it’s not like you’re dying right now. And so we did that, and we had this angel, she was an amazing hospice nurse a Christian and just even gave me her home phone number. I could call her anytime and was just amazing just to have that help. So he got gradually worse. Um, and it was also 2020. So the kids were home, um, you know, starting in March of 2020, and we can now see it as a blessing of time we got with him. And so we would spend every he slept most of the day, but in the evenings we would watch a family movie and have popcorn like almost every night. And that’s you know, the kids like very good memories, like remembering that I actually have a list of every movie we watched because I kept tracking them, and it was just this very sweet time of family, and um just a beautiful, beautiful time, and just to kind of give you a glimpse of just I don’t know how amazing he was. Randomly, and um let’s see, that was the beginning of May or the end of April. He was like, Let’s go get your wedding ring fixed. And so I had my old wedding ring, like the diamond had fallen out, and we got a cheap replacement, we couldn’t afford anything. And I was like, Why do you want to do that now? And he’s like, Well, we got that stimulus check, you know. Remember in COVID, there was stimulus check. So there was nothing open. This was COVID, but someone heard our story and opened up a local jewelry store and let just me and him go in. And it was just such a sweet time, like picking out this diamond, like it was a it was our last date, like just me and him. It was a beautiful time. And um, you know, it was really hard for me to accept it because I’m like, I don’t know if I’ll wear this forever. And the hospice nurse was like, It’s his last wish, just go with it. I’m like, okay. And then what’s even more beautiful is on the day it was ready, the kids wanted to go because they had nowhere to go. They’re like, we want to go, we’re just stuck in the house. And so we all went, and the um the jeweler, she actually took a video of me opening the ring, and she took our last family picture, and that was um that was May 13th, it was 10 days before he died. We got a family picture, so it’s one of my most treasured pictures, and I have the treasured video of him giving me the ring, and just such a beautiful time of like him showing his love, even though I remember he was like throwing up and sick that day, like he really just wanted to do this for me. And um, May 22nd, the hospice nurse came and told him, you know, you’re really starting to decline. We’re probably gonna have to get a hospital bed. He was fully functional up until this point. And she told me privately, maybe four to six weeks left. And I was just updating the kids, like when I would pray with them and I’d kind of telling them where everything’s at, still praying for a miracle every single day. And um, May 22nd, we just had this beautiful family hug, even with the dog. I can look back and see all these beautiful things, watched a movie together, and um, him and I just stayed up and he wanted me to make him a grilled cheese sandwich and just had this wonderful time. I go, This is our best date. And he’s like, Yeah, this is great. And that was our last night together. And I woke up in the morning on May 23rd and the lights were on, and he was looking for some medicine. He’s like, My calf really hurts. Can you get me a heating pad? I tried that, it didn’t help. Can you get me some ice? Like, we were trying all these different things, and all of a sudden he wasn’t able to breathe. So I called um the hospice nurse and they said to put oxygen on him, and like nothing was helping. And then they told me, like, this is probably it, and I was really confused and like you need to go wake up your kids. And it was like 4 a.m. And I’ll never forget the sound of telling my daughter Haley, who was 14 at the time, like it’s time to say goodbye to daddy, and she was like, No, it’s not, because I just told her we had more time. I’m like, it is, and the only way I can describe those moments that maybe hour we had with him was God gave me a supernatural peace to walk my kids through it because I was so scared of what it would be like. I mean, it was like my worst fear, and I knew it was coming. But I was so calm, and I had seen him suffer, him not be able to breathe, his eyes roll in his head, but the kids didn’t. By the time they got in there, I know God protected them. He was just completely calm, looking up in the corner, just eyes locked there, which is another part of my story I’ll get to. Um, and I was able to talk to him. I said, You are gonna hear, well done, my good and faithful servant, and you’re gonna meet my grandparents today. And like he just God gave me this like strength, and I was like telling my kids, your dad can hear you, talk to him, and just leading them through this time. I was able to call his mom and my mom and get everybody there. And we had about an hour when he was still alive, just talking to him and he was trying to speak, and it was like he was saying, I I and it’s like I’m like, it’s okay, we know you love us. Like, I know that’s what he was trying to say. Actually, my son had a dream about it later that that’s what he was trying to say. And um we my daughter sang, You are my sunshine, which was their song, but it was beautiful, and then for some reason I grabbed my phone and played the song I Can Only Imagine, which is about heaven. And during that song is actually when he took his last breath. That’s when the nurse came in and said he’s no longer with us. And that’s when it got really hard. Um, there’s nothing to prepare you for what it’s like to watch a soul leave a body, especially your um your spouse, and to watch your kids watch that. And when it was time for my kids to say goodbye. Um I w I was holding it together until then, but they were like kissing and goodbye and slowly leaving one at a time to the other room with their grandma. And then it was just me and my mom and Luke’s body, and I laid on the bed um with him and I’ll never forget, like holding his hand that was getting cold and just crying like this, like this wail. I didn’t realize realize how loud it was until my kids have told me what that moment was like for them in the other room. Um, just this wail so deep because it’s like a some nothing you’ve ever experienced. I knew for years that this was coming, but nothing prepared me for that moment um when his soul would leave. Um, and just I really like to share this because it’s something God revealed to me. So at the point when he was dying, his eyes were locked in the corner, and we were like, Are you seeing angels? I mean, so many people have stories like this. And two months later, and then I’ll get back to where I was. Two months later, I went to a grief retreat and we um it was a Christian grief retreat, and we asked God to show us, close our eyes and take us back to our most painful moment, where were you? And showed me a bunch of things, and then all of a sudden I experienced Luke’s death as him. Like I was in his head. I felt his the first thing I felt was the most peace I’ve ever felt my entire life. Like unexplainable, heavenly peace. And I heard these thoughts, I’m okay to leave my family, which was his biggest fear, and I feel no pain. And when I looked up as Luke in the corner, there was Jesus just hovering right there over this whole scene. And when I heard the song, I can only imagine I, as Luke, followed Jesus towards the light, and that was my my vision. And I feel like that totally was God, and then he gave that to me, not only for me, but to share to others who wonder what was it like for my loved one? What were they feeling? Well, they were probably feeling a lot of peace. Like it’s like this unexplained. I mean, I’ve never had that feeling. I’ll probably never have it again until heaven of this unexplainable peace that Luke was feeling. And um, just such a gift that God gave me that that vision. I met a girl at a grief retreat and she told me I was sharing my story. She raised her hand, she’s crying, she’s like, My husband was looking in the right corner too. Like he was probably seeing Jesus too. I’m like, Yep, he probably was. Um, but to go back to what life was like, like after he died, we left the house because um the hospice nurses said, You don’t want your kids to see the coroner coming. It’s not a pretty picture, so you don’t want him to be there. So I rushed them out. Um, I also have some regret of not staying with his body very long, but I just needed to get them out because someone had already called the coroner. And so went to my brother’s house, came back hours later, and I’ll never forget the emptiness that the house felt. Because every person actually does have physical energy in them, and when it’s gone, it’s a different, it feels different. And you know, going into our room and seeing his prosthetic leg just laying uh on the bed, and then like the ice was melted, the heating power, like everything was there where we left it, his glasses where he left it, his cup, like everything. I didn’t let anybody touch anything for a really long time, and just that feeling of emptiness. And how am I gonna do this? Like, how do I take care of myself and how do I take care of my kids? At that time, they were exactly 12, 14, and 15. And it was like, how am I gonna do this? Like, my identity changed in an instant. I went from being married to single, and that changed a lot of things, which we can get into identity stuff in a minute. Um, but I was like, I don’t think I can do this. I don’t think I can. Thankfully, I had wonderful family. My best friend drove like seven hours to get there, you know, church family, lots of people surrounding us, but I still felt alone because this was a different kind of death. My friends didn’t know what this was like to lose a spouse. At the end of the day, they were going home to their spouse. My family had spouse. It was just a different kind of loss. And learning how to single, I mean, solo parent, which is much different than single parent, was very hard. Like where you’re making all the decisions. And my oldest did not react well to his dad’s death. He started acting out. He was 15. You know, he would try to like run away. He would try to yell at us. I mean, it was a horrible time, and I had to have like help with him, you know. Um, he’s now 21, and he talks about it that he just didn’t know what to do with his grief at that time. And it was this dark place. Like I tell people, it’s like a dark, dark cave. Like you don’t think you’re ever gonna get out. And how I got out was slowly, very slowly, one moment at a time. It’s not even a day at a time. Like in the beginning, it’s kind of a blur because you have so much to do. You’ve got to be, you have to deal with like burial plans and you know, all of these things. And this is COVID, so it was really hard. Um, you know, people aren’t supposed to be coming over, but I at that moment that went out the window. I was like, I don’t care, I need to see people. Um, before we were really careful because he was high risk and I didn’t want anyone with COVID, you know, to get him, you know, for him to have COVID. Um, oh, I always forget to tell this. So why his leg was hurting, the doctor said he probably had a blood clot, like why he died so suddenly. But it was actually a really good thing because he was so scared of going down that path of losing. He didn’t want us to have to change him and feed him and all the things. He was so scared of this big strong man, didn’t want us to do that. So I I’m thankful, even though we lost like maybe a month with him, but we didn’t have to see that. My kids didn’t have to see him declining like that. They got to spend their his last day with him, with him walking around, talking and all that. Um, but anyways, you know, after he died, it was a lot of who am I now? What am I gonna do? So everything’s busy in the beginning. Um his I think his service, his first service was like two weeks after he died. The we did a burial, um, and it was a horrible day. It was awful. And because of COVID, we could only have 10 people there, even though it was outdoors. So my own brothers had to be in their cars watching it on live stream, and just a really hard time to plan things like that. Um, and everything shut down. There’s no in-person counseling, there’s no there’s nothing, which was really difficult. When you need people, you can’t be around people. Um, so, anyways, after that, um, I really just dove into healing like it was my job, and that’s what I teach people. When you’re in grief, healing is your job. That’s all you need to focus on. But again, I’m carrying my grief and my kids’ grief. I’m grieving my husband, they’re grieving their dad, and I’m grieving for them. And so um I just felt like, you know, turning on worship music, crying on the floor. I felt the peace that passes all understanding cover me. Um, and that’s really, I believe, how I got through those first couple months is a lot of prayer. I would often imagine I was crawling on Jesus’ lap and just crying while he held me. And he always met me there. There, I mean, it was an indescribable peace. And God says that he’s close to the brokenhearted and crushed in spirit. And I was like, that’s me. And I felt it. I really felt it during that time and a different closeness. And how I explain grief is in the beginning, it feels like every day is like a big stormy clo storm, like clouds and rain. And one day you see a little bit of light, a little sunshine, something makes you smile, and you’re like, oh wow, there’s life after this. And then slowly you start seeing more sunshine until eventually, where I am five and a half years later, it’s mostly sunny, but I’ll have those days. I had one a couple days ago. Um, it was the 23-year anniversary of when Luke and I got engaged, and I had a day of not a whole day, just a little a little bit of time in the morning of crying and feeling it, but that’s okay. It’s always gonna be with us, it just doesn’t hurt as bad as in the beginning. So I was going through these storm periods, but it was starting to get better. Um, I went to a grief retreat, which was a huge part of my healing. It was COVID, but somehow a friend of mine had found one that was kind of like it was very outdoors that they were doing it, which actually ended up being the place we did Luke’s celebration of life. So it was all tied into this plan that God had. And I like sharing this part too. A lot of amazing things happened at that retreat. Um, one of them is I was feeling um kind of what you were saying about doubting God and like why did this happen? And um, am I being punished? My husband died. Is this a punishment? I went into the retreat with that thought. Well, God revealed to me through the another vision he gave me. Um, it was like this beautiful time when we’re in worship, and there was I was brought back to Luke’s deathbed, and then I saw Jesus placing a crown on my head, and he said, Out of all the people in the world, I chose you to be Luke’s wife, to walk into death, and I’m so proud of you. And in that moment, everything changed, reframed my whole thing about Luke’s death. Like, no, this is a privilege. And I like to teach that to people, not just widows, that whoever you have loved in your life that you’ve lost, like you were chosen to be in their life. And that’s a beautiful instead of like, why did my best friend die? Why did my mom die? Why did I was chosen? And so I’m hoping that helps listeners because I know we’ve all lost somebody. Like, no, I was chosen, and I really focus on that when I work with widows, and it helps so much to just reframe that. So I started getting healing just a little bit at a time, and um, you know, about three or four months after, I was starting to feel pretty good. But I had looked for widows groups in churches, there were none. Um, I had made a few widow friends. I have one of my best friends still, she had reached out to me on social media. She had been widowed twice by 40. Um, and so she was able to help me see that like I got through this, you’re gonna get through it. And so as I started to heal, I was like, I want to help other people. You know, there’s no widows group, there’s no anything. So I started to create what I wish there would have been for me. So actually, the first, I believe the first thing I did was um create a TikTok channel, which was nothing I’d ever done. And in the beginning, because that was like uh 21 when I created it, um, I thought it was just a bunch of people dancing. That’s when it was pretty new. But I found out there’s actually a lot of people wanting to learn about a lot of things and that there’s a gigantic widow community. And so I just started teaching like I was like widow goal number one, get out of bed, and just started talking about things that had helped me and found a huge following and connected with so many widows. And then the next thing, um, I was on Facebook, is actually where I found a ton of people I connected with because I didn’t really have anybody in my life besides the new widows I had met. Um I had one widow from a long time ago, and the new widow I was telling you about, and we all became friends and did a lot of things together. Um, but I didn’t have a lot of people. Like I had Girls Night with my friends, and they would talk about their husbands, and just was like, I need people who who get this. So on Facebook, I found a community called Young and Widowed with Children, and um we uh I became friends with a lot of people. I met a widower and we became really good friends, and we decided to start a podcast. This was 11 months after Luke died, because we were in this group and we were like, these people need Jesus, like we need to show them like how we’re getting through this. And so in 21, we started Widowed Too Soon. It’s now been going four years, and um, he was a widower with young children, I’m a widow with teenagers, so we were able to just talk through all the subjects. And as far as I know, it’s still the only Christian widow podcast. Um, so we started doing that, and then I was like, I really wish there were like groups for widows, and so I started a nonprofit called Widow Goals, and the motto is widows helping widows not only survive but thrive. And so it’s all run by widows, the board’s widows, like people who’ve been through it, showing the new widows you’re gonna get through this, because that’s all I wanted to know in the beginning. And so I started a group in my local area, and we still meet the third Monday of every month. Um, fourth and uh Thanksgiving. We had 20 widows here, we had widows in their 30s and widows in their 80s and everywhere in between. And it’s such a beautiful time. We just get this, like we get this life, and we have a lot of fun. Um, and then other people said to me, Well, I want a group, how do I do it? So I just started training people. I made videos and was like, this is how you do it. And now we’re in over 30 cities across the country and Canada. And um so that nonprofit also does retreats. Um, we’re planning our third retreat for January. We have 70 widows that are registered, it’s in Dallas, and um, that’s a time of worship and pouring over these people, and all of the speakers are widows and the worship team. In fact, my daughter’s coming to sing on the worship team, which I’m super excited about, and she’s launching a ministry for the kids of widows because she said she’s seen what I’ve done and she wants to help people like she wish she would have had help. She’s 19 now. And um, so I just started doing all these things. I was an elementary teacher before Luke died. Um, I actually went back for a tiny bit after he died, and that was confirmation. No, this is not for me. Like, um, I want to teach adults, I want to teach widows, I want to pour into them. I became a grief recovery specialist and started working with people and helping them through their grief, and um just really started pouring into people, and I watched God take my morning and literally turning into dancing. That was part of um something I did. I started going line dancing with my widow friends and just learning like how to live life again. I remember kind of going to the identity piece, like, okay, it was really upsetting the first time I had a form to fill out, and it was like widow. And I was like, oh, I guess I’m a widow, which I had thought widows were like 90 years old with a white button with cats crawling on them. That’s literally not what I thought a widow was. And so my identity, who am I? I’m not a wife anymore. And then it became about like, who does God say I am? Who am I in Christ? Because really we can strip away all the other titles. Who are we inside? And so I started working on that. And then I also was like, my life is kind of like a blank book, I could do anything I wanted. And though I would have never chosen this, I was kind of excited. I was like, what do I want to do? I get to redefine my life, and so you know, I started paddleboarding and became a paddleboarder. I started um financing, uh, you know, I just started doing all of these things to figure out what is something that brings me life, what do I like? I started pouring into people on my podcast, and you know, the best way to heal is to pour in other people, and so that really helped with my healing, and I also decided I wanted to write a book. So actually, like backing it up to my first, I guess this was the very first thing I did about six months after Luke died. I entered a contest with Proverbs 31 women, and they were having a contest for people to enter this thing called a book proposal boot camp. So there were over 800 entry uh entries, and I was one of the top 110 or something. And so they liked my book idea, and so I got to be coached on how to make this book proposal, and in that time I wrote three chapters of Widow Goals Steps to Finding Peace When You Lose Your Spouse. And there were I didn’t win the contest, and I just kind of put it down and I know it was totally God because I didn’t know what I was talking about 11 months into my journey or six months into my journey, and so um I put that on the shelf until January of 25. I was like, okay, it’s gonna be the five-year anniversary of Luke’s death. I want to get this done in honor of him. And so I really wrote it in four months, wrote the the other 27 chapters, and decided like I’m going to do this. And basically, what widow goals is, it’s steps you can take in any order, like get out of bed, um, reenter social situations, solo parenting, how to date again, like just all these things that I learned over the years, and they’re all based in scripture. And um there’s questions at the end and action steps, and I just put everything into it that I wanted. And I read a lot of widow books because I’m a podcast host, people send them to me, but they’re usually like their story with like 10% of tools of how to help people. I switched it. I’m like, no, it’s gonna be 10% my story, 90% tools. Like, I want like everyone wants to know when they read a book, like how’s it gonna help me? And so I wanted it to do that. And then um, I had such a great response that I went on to create a workbook um with like places to have prayer journals and deeper questions, and then people started using the book in the workbook in groups, and so I created a leader’s guide, and now I’m my aim and mission is to get it into churches um and to get people like doing this because um being a widow in church is one of the loneliest places. Um, there’s things made for families, um, young couples, couples like divorce care, you know, all these things that are great, but there’s usually if there is, there’s grief share, which is great, but it’s not specifically widows. Um, widows are mentioned 103 times in the Bible, yet so few churches actually um support them. So I just every podcast I’m on, I just challenge people. All you have to do is ask your pastor or someone in leadership, how do we support widows and make sure your church has something because most don’t like I couldn’t find anything, and so that’s why I started my nonprofit. And so my big passion is supporting widows, especially those first few months. It’s so beautiful in my nonprofit group. When we hear of a new widow, we all sign a card for her, and then I mail it to her, um, put my phone number. And this is this just happened this past uh few months ago. We did that, and this widow reached out to me and said, That card meant the world to me. I’m coming next time, and now she’s part of the group, and some of us went to her husband’s celebration of life to support her, and it’s just like this sisterhood that comes together and supports each other, and so it’s been like the greatest um calling of my life, you know. And people ask me, which I didn’t even get into this part of the story, why are you still here? You’re married again, which I got married again two and a half years ago to my amazing husband Joel, who supports all of this, you know. And I say, because I’ve been widowed and I know what it feels like, and I still want to help those people. I don’t have to be here, but I want to. It’s God’s calling on my life. I may be here forever, God may call me somewhere else. Um, I don’t know. But I just feel like if I had to go through it, I’m gonna use this. God doesn’t waste any pain. I’m gonna use this to help other people, and so that’s why I created my podcast, The Nonprofit, The Retreat, all the things that I do, the book, in order to help people. And now I’m going on other people’s podcasts and spreading the word about really, it’s just um education about widows and grief. Um, and there’s so many misconceptions about grief, and I talk about what to say and what not to say, and you know, all of those things. And so I just want to be an advocate for those who are brokenhearted. You know, I have widow friends who not only lost their spouse, but also their child at the same time in car accidents. I mean, it’s just so many heartbreaks, suicides. I mean, it’s just heartbreaking when you really dive in. People don’t know this is a whole world that exists that are younger people. Like most of my friends are like 40s or younger that are widowed. And um, it’s just um, yeah, it’s a different world. So, anyways, that’s I guess in a nutshell, I mean, that’s a lot, but that’s my story with Luke and how God redirected my life as a widow. Um, a couple days ago, my 17-year-old, who’s my youngest, asked me, if you knew on your wedding date to daddy that he was gonna die, would you still do it? And I said, Yes, a million percent yes, because your dad made I made me who I am today. You and your siblings would not be here. And God had a mission and a calling for me, and I wouldn’t be here without your dad. You know, our first retreat, we we were having a worship time, and I felt like God brought me back to Luke’s deathbed again, and then looked at all the women in the room who were crying, and and and God was like, if Luke hadn’t died, this moment wouldn’t be happening. And it was like, whoa, just this weird moment. I would have never chose it. I don’t want it for my kids. Um, but it was God’s plan. And so I believe that everything that happens in in life, God’s hand touches, he either allows it or he he creates it, right? So we know he doesn’t um he doesn’t create sickness and death, he doesn’t caught cause is the word I’m looking for. He doesn’t cause sickness and death, but he allows it. And so when Luke was sick, I heard a sermon and the pastor said, if God allowed it, I can accept it. And that’s kind of been my motto ever since then. Like, I trust God. He allowed this, I can accept it, you know, and so that’s really how I live my life. Like, this is God’s plan. Never would have chosen it. Um, but there’s been so much good in it. I’ve seen so much good with the widows that I’ve met around the world. You know, as a podcaster, you get emails from people around the world and you’re like, okay, this is working. Because sometimes when you’re sitting by yourself with a microphone, you’re like, is this really doing any good? And then you hear from people and you’re like, okay, I have a sticker on my computer that says go into all the world and preach the good news. And we get to do that as podcasters. We get to share our faith around the world while sitting at our home. How amazing is that? Like, I think it’s the best time period to be alive to be able to do what we do. So that’s pretty much my story.
SPEAKER_02:
That’s your story. Yeah. Um, so much to unpack, but I’m gonna do my best here.
SPEAKER_04:
Okay.
SPEAKER_03:
Um, you first of all, I commend you immensely for getting at that and being there for those kids and staying rooted in your faith because lots of people turn away. Especially when they go through this amount of break.
SPEAKER_02:
And I as a daughter, I can relate to your daughter when you mentioned your daughter and you know, having to say goodbye. It brought me back to that phone call that my mother made to me the very first time she thought my father was gonna pass away.
SPEAKER_03:
And and daddy passed away last June.
SPEAKER_02:
Lots of similarities in just like watching it through her eyes and watching it through your eyes so that I could understand my mother best, right? Because my mother saw the decline, and yet he had our last Christmas. I have pictures of that last Christmas, and I took pictures of the most precious moments, moments that are fleeting for most people because they’re so busy with life, and that it they just they don’t stop and pause.
SPEAKER_03:
What makes you stop and pause is the grief, the grief forces you to look at those moments as the most precious moments. Like I have a picture of my mom and my dad sitting on my dad’s recliner watching TV, and my dad just like scratching her back.
SPEAKER_02:
Just such a tender moment of her just sitting with him, or a picture of my dad sitting in a wheelchair because he couldn’t walk anymore. He had a brain tumor, and it was he was terminal, and my daughter had a hard time that evening for whatever reason it was Christmas Eve, and he looks concerned and looked at her and said, Um, what’s wrong, Cachatona? Cachetona is Spanish for cheeky, for big cheeky and she walked up to him, and there was a special moment between them, and I had my phone and I just captured it and I turned to that picture sometimes.
SPEAKER_04:
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:
But going to your journey, I’m really curious how must have been traps that you fell into that I know people fall into when they’re in those dark spaces. How did you stay rooted in your identity in Christ and not turn away from him?
SPEAKER_05:
That’s a great question.
SPEAKER_06:
Um you know I’ve never doubted my relationship with Jesus or like my faith as far as like believing like what is true. Um I don’t know. I have just always accepted it. Like this is this is what it is. But yes, there were definitely dark times. There were times when I was trying to figure out who am I now. Um there was um a lot of just like being lost. I think that’s the best words that I tell people when you’re widowed, you just feel so lost. When you lose a spouse, literally everything in your life changes. What you shop for to eat, like what you watch on TV, like literally everything changes. And so there was a lot of like, I would say that I can look back at time periods when I was lost, like, you know, going out late at night with friends and my kids waiting up for me, like things like that. That I’m like, who, what was I doing, you know, at that point? Like I was really lost. Um, and I can look back and I’m not proud of all my moments. And, you know, I had some dates with other people before Joel that I’m not proud of. And like, you know, there was a time when I was just like, yeah, I would get periods of time where I’m like kind of angry and just mostly just trying to figure out who I am when I’m not married to Luke, like that part of my life. Like, how do I act as a single woman in my 40s? Like, I don’t even know how to do this. But I believe, like, no matter what I did, you know, even if I made mistakes, which I did make mistakes along the way, um, I never lost like my faith in Jesus. Like, I would do things wrong, but I knew they were wrong. But I never like I never doubted. Somebody asked me that on a podcast yesterday about like, have you ever doubted? I’m like, I actually haven’t. Like, I’ve always just believed and believed that God has a plan, but I know that it does happen. My oldest son, um, he’s doesn’t know what he believes right now. He’s 21 and he’s like, if there’s a God, why didn’t he heal my dad? And he’s kind of in that place. And I I have to let him go through his own questions and he’s all of that. And um, you know, my other two kids reacted differently, like they grew closer to God, but everybody is different. And so um, yeah, but I definitely had had those hard times and those times, but I just I don’t know, he always comforted me when I got in those deep dark pits. Um, I was always able to cry out to him and be covered with peace. And then having community is huge. You don’t want to be by yourself, you know. So finding other people like to reach out to. Like I actually had a whole group text um that I would text anytime. Like it started when Luke was sick, like just friends and family. I could just text. And I did it after he died too. Like, hey, I need prayer right now, or I need this, or I need, you know, and so I would always, and that’s actually a chapter in my book called Call on Your Tribe, and it’s about finding your people and don’t be afraid to ask for help because we need it. That’s the only way you can get through it with God and people. If you’re in that deep grief, you need someone to pull you out, you need someone to tell you it’s gonna get better. You need someone to um sit with you in the mud, like come to the ugly. We don’t need people to say to us, and I’m sure you’ve experienced this with the loss of your dad. People say the wrong thing. I’ll tell the thick audience two things not to say and two things to say. Don’t ever say, I know how you feel, and fill it in with anything. Even if you have a similar loss, you don’t know. Like we’re all different. Um, the one that widows hate the most is when people say, I know how you feel, I’m divorced. And I do understand that’s a big grief because my husband Joel has been divorced. I know it’s a it’s a big grief, but it is not the same, especially if you have kids, they have both parents. Um, but anything that starts with I know how you feel, just don’t say it. Instead say, I don’t know how you feel, but I’m here to listen. And then just be quiet. Just sit with us. That’s what we want. Another thing not to say is at least. Anything that starts with at least, at least you had this many years. At least he’s not in pain. At least you’re young, you’ll get married again. But diminishes the griever’s pain, you know. So we don’t want to say that. We just want to be there for them. Also, don’t say, um, let me know if you ever need anything. I have been guilty of saying that before I knew that wasn’t a good thing to say. So grievers don’t know what they need, they’re just lost. And it’s like we can’t make decisions, so we need someone to step up and say, This is what I’m going to do for you. I had friends who said, We’re gonna come over and clean your house. We are bringing you a meal, we are taking the kids, we are having a girls’ night and bringing over some soup. I remember they did that like four days after he died. Like, you just need friends and family to step up. And I I love educating people because I didn’t know this before Luke died. I didn’t know what to say and not to say, and I also personally feel like it’s worse to not say anything because it’s like not acknowledging what we went through. And so Agrava would rather you say something. I I mean I even prefer the wrong thing over nothing. And I heard once that we should listen to their hearts, not their words. So I try to do that, like they’re speaking up and they’re trying, and I commend that, and I am I love that they’re saying something. Um, but yeah, we just need people to be with us and to sit there with us.
SPEAKER_02:
I I had a question that came up because I have a very good friend who lost her husband in 2021. And I wanted like to understand what working through it look like for you versus um avoiding it through doing multiple projects and dating and is that working through it or is that no, working through it is sitting in your pain, like feeling it.
SPEAKER_06:
The literally the only way to get through grief is to feel it. You have to feel it. Um, there’s a a quote I say all the time, what we feel God can heal. Like we have to feel it. So you see the grievers who either they just stop it down or they do keep busy. That’s a grief myth that you should keep busy. It’s actually one of the worst things you can do. And that’s why a griever can be in the same place five years because they didn’t do the work. So, for example, if I went to my car, had a flat tire, and I said, I’m gonna come back in a year, I think it’s gonna be better. But I did nothing, I didn’t put the air in it, it would still be flat. And so the people that are always keeping busy and maybe they’re distracting themselves just with dating a lot, all of that, they’re not actually working through it, and it’s going to hit them at some point, and it’s it’s not gonna be pretty. My counselor actually said too, my youngest when he was 12, you need to get your grief out because it’s like constipation, and if you don’t, you’re gonna explode. And it was like a really great illustration for a 12-year-old boy to think of like why I need to talk about this. It’s so much that even I learned this through the grief recovery method, which is what I’m certified in, that we have to let people grieve, like, not even, you know, um, we like to comfort people, like rub their back all the time, all this stuff. No, we need to let them feel it. So, for example, my daughter a couple years ago was having a trigger and really crying about her dad, and I just let her cry and I explained it to her. I want you to feel this because if I like try to rub your back and stop you from crying, you’re actually like I’m stopping your grief, and I want you to get through it. Now, of course, when they’re done, you can hug them, but let people feel it. Don’t try to change the subject. Don’t try like we need people literally to come sit with us and let us cry. We don’t need someone to fix us, we don’t want someone to fix us, we just want someone to listen. And then I can tell you another thing that would mean a lot to your friend, because so many people forget about this. There are really hard days when you’re widowed. The hardest, in my opinion, two the two hardest your death, you the death anniversary, so like the day that they died, and your would-be wedding anniversary. Like I’m married again, but I still grieve on my would-be anniversary with Luke. And so, what we need is people to call us or text us on that day and say they remembered because nobody does. The very first year, my best friend who was there, she forgot the date of his you know death anniversary. And so I told her that really hurt me, and she put it in her calendar, never forgets again. And um, also I have another friend who never forgets. Well, it happens to be her birthday, so she never forgets my wedding anniversary. I never forget her birthday. Um, and she reaches out every year, and I actually created a space for widows that they’ve given me their dates, and I have an email that goes to them that I pray over them on those days because it’s so hard because so many people don’t do that. So I advise for you and for listeners, get the date, like figure out what if you don’t remember, ask somebody like get the date, put it in your calendar and say think even a little text thinking of you today. That means so much. Like my own family, like doesn’t always remember my brothers, anybody like so it means so much that somebody acknowledges it, and especially also if you can find her wedding anniversary, because that’s another one because people don’t know remember it because it’s not their day, it’s not like Christmas, it’s not all the big holidays. Like, yeah. So um, if you’re listening, if you know someone that’s lost, someone doesn’t have to be a spouse, they’ve lost someone they love, get those dates and please reach out to them because one of the things is you just feel so alone. I felt so alone until I built a whole widow community and found other people who are going through the same thing. The funny thing is that I am that friend that texts her.
SPEAKER_02:
Oh, yeah, that anniversary. And that’s awesome. She married, they married a week before my second husband and I married. There’s a lot of similarities between us.
SPEAKER_05:
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:
I just have never had a my spouse die, which I don’t, you know, so I can’t relate. But um, and I remember exactly when he died and what I was doing that day. Because I texted her to see if they needed anything. They were all sick with COVID at home, and she said, I need prayers because Robert passed away this morning. And I just I it stopped me getting my drugs because I was walking near her her her uh neighborhood. But I knew she was a very private person and I didn’t want to interfere, and I was waiting for her to kind of reach out, but like you said, you you’re lost during those days, you’re in a flurry of activity because there’s so much going on. Yes. Um, but when it dies down is when they really need us. And and one of the things I’ve I’ve done periodically, and I’ve stopped doing it recently because I I don’t want to overstep my bounds, is I know she was struggling a lot with her faith. She was very angry with God, rightly so. I mean, there’s people that don’t have that faith, that don’t rely, they may have religion, but they don’t have faith, and there’s a very big distinction, I think, there. Um, and I know she was struggling and she was sharing it with me. So there were times in devotionals that I would be sitting having my coffee chats with God in the morning, and I would send some devotionals if her face would show up in my awareness, and that’s the way that the Holy Spirit kind of communicates with me. I get visions like you, yeah, and of certain people and certain events, and I would be reading and I would be brought back to a conversation from years before, and I would share that with her and say, you know, there’s something in this devotional that’s meant for you. I don’t know what it is because I’m forgotten I don’t see your heart. I don’t know what’s going on right now, but I just feel that you need to receive this. And so sometimes I’ll hear back from her, sometimes I won’t. So I’m wondering if, like, in the times I don’t hear back, if I’ve overset my boundaries, or she just got busy or something, you know. Um, because we do want to be there for the people that have been through this loss, and we don’t want to share our experiences because they don’t really matter. They what matters is for us to sit and be present with people, and I’ve learned that in the last two weeks. You remember at the beginning of the podcast that I shared with you that I fell from grace, yeah, but that long pause, I’m actually grateful for it as hard as it was to go through it, because it forced me to see the way I was showing up for people and not showing up for people and what I could do to correct it, you know. And I thought a lot of these instances with my friends and with other friends going through other losses, like the separation with the spouse and how that was impacting their kids. And so I don’t I want to be a better friend and a better um soul sister to them because I I care about them and I love them and I don’t want them to feel like they’re alone in this because we’re not alone. God is always with us. That that peace that you talk about, I felt that peace on the day my father died. Yeah, because I had I had surrendered that grief to him daily, yes, from the moment I heard your dad’s terminal because I knew it was my greatest fear. I was like, I don’t know if this thing’s gonna take me down or not. And I would go into my war room, my prayer closet, yeah, and just I was sobbing every day. It was awful because I knew it was coming, and I was terrified of that. And the interesting thing was that day that he died was the most beautiful day. It was a Sunday, it’s my favorite day of the week because I get to go to church. Yes, I had to be more and more with God, right? And it didn’t allow me, it it Sunday didn’t become an ugly day for me, interestingly enough. Um I mean because God carried me that day. And I was there with my dad’s body when it was being zipped up.
SPEAKER_03:
And my son My son was there with him too. As young as he was, he was there and he was hanging my dad’s head as he was like you in a way. Somehow you find a stranger like that to make sense. He needed to be fine. He’s hard as a daddy for your kids. They didn’t have time. They were so young. But they had you and they had God with them as well. Because he was ill with them. He helped them like babies in his arms and thank you for sharing the vision that God gave you because I dad. I wonder what that moment was like for Thank you for sharing that. It gave me even more peace. So it’s important for all of us that are listening to share our stories because you don’t know the answer you’ll receive to a prayer or a thought that has been annoying at you for years. And uh Michelle, I I want to leave you uh the space to say anything you want to say to say to sign us off on the show.
SPEAKER_02:
Anything you want to share with people, and I also want to know how to be in touch with you so that the writers listening on the show can reach out to you and see if there’s anything, any groups in their area that they can belong to.
SPEAKER_05:
Yeah, well thank you.
SPEAKER_06:
Um grief is is definitely difficult, um, no matter who you lose. And so I’m sorry for your loss as well and for your kids, because it’s a very difficult journey. I feel like where I am in my journey now, I grieve mostly for my kids. Um, you know, I’m remarried, that doesn’t mean I don’t still grieve, Luke, but I have someone in that role. I do have a husband to come home to all of that. They’ll never have a dad, you know, again, and so I grieve like when I’ve had um two of them graduate um high school, about to have a third, you know, without him um taking the oldest two to college, like just all the all three of them getting their driver’s license, like these moments, I just feel it. And and Haley, my daughter told me the other day, she’s like, I get sad all the time, all the moments daddy’s gonna miss. I was like, I know, I’m sorry. Um, but anyways, just wanted to share that part. I it’s so hard. But I would say um I would love to connect with anybody, widowed or not, that wants to talk about grief. Um, the best place to find pretty much everything we talked about is widowgoals.org. It has um all the cities that I have groups in, it has the retreat information, um, my podcast, which is called Widowed Too Soon. You can just look that up anywhere, but I do have a link for that. Um, my books, all of it are there. And you can also email me, Michelle at widowgoals.org. And then also if you’re on Facebook and you’re widowed, please join our widow community, also called Widowed Too Soon with the number two. It’s called Widow Too Soon community. And there’s over 13,000 people and they are supporting each other. It’s a beautiful community. Um, so we’d love to have you part of that. We do still have a few spots for the retreat. So um, if you’re interested, um, please uh you know send me a message or look at the information and get registered as soon as possible. We’d love to have you there. It’s such a time of healing, and I just want to encourage everyone listening, whatever grief you’re going through to know a couple things, it’s not always gonna hurt as bad as it does today. Um, if you’re in that beginning place and to feel it, don’t stuff the pain. What we feel God can heal and let yourself feel the pain no matter where you’re at. It doesn’t matter what anybody thinks, your healing is more important than what anybody thinks. So just let yourself feel it.
SPEAKER_02:
Awesome. Well, thanks so much, Michelle, for joining us. Um at least that would be a purpose. And for the listeners, remember Matthew 5.14 to be the light, be the light. It’s hard to be a light when you’ve been in a dark place, but still be a light because when we serve others, we are uh serving ourselves as well. You know, service is love made visible, and that’s something that sits on my desk. As a reminder, it’s an anonymous quote, nobody knows who wrote that, but it’s something that has kept me going on those dark days. Um, when I want to throw a pity party for myself or um feel victim to anything, that only keeps us in that dark space longer, but when we when we step and Just get out of bed, like Michelle said, or we go and we serve somebody else. It lifts our spirit in a way that God knows it will, and that’s why He’s He’s prompting us to step out and do those things. And so whatever your heart and your soul is is pulling you to do, do that. Listen to that voice, because it is the Holy Spirit and He loves you and He’s with you every step of the way. You are not alone in this journey. And please reach out to Michelle because she knows she’s been there, she understands more than any of us that have never been in that situation before. So uh please share this episode if it touched your heart and if you feel moved to do that. And so I love y’all. Thank you, Michelle. Love you too. Thank you for your story of grief and and transformation and pain to purpose.
SPEAKER_03:
And uh love y’all. Stay blessed. Bye now.
SPEAKER_00:
So that’s it for today’s episode of Release Doubt Reveal Purpose. Head on over to iTunes or wherever you listen and subscribe to the show. One lucky listener every single week who posts a review on iTunes. We’ll win a chance on the grand prize drawing to win a twenty-five thousand dollar private VIP day with Sylvia Worsham herself. Be sure to head on over to sylviaworsham.com and pick up a free copy of Sylvia’s gift and join us on the next episode.