You can love someone deeply and still feel like you’re speaking different languages, and it’s not because either of you is “bad at communication.” Sylvia Worsham sits down with Eric Gee, author of The Power of Personality, to unpack a values-based personality system that explains why one person craves certainty while another chases adrenaline.
We talk through Eric’s framework of four personality packs and how they connect to 16 animal personality types. Gatherers prioritize safety and security and often become the steady, responsible backbone in families and teams. Hunters prioritize visceral excitement and bring spontaneity, risk tolerance, and momentum. From there, we get practical: how to spot patterns without stereotyping, how culture and upbringing can layer over your core type, and why the same “pack” can still contain very different people (think elephant vs beaver, peacock vs shark).
The conversation gets real about work and relationships too. We explore career fit, learning styles, and why hands-on “shark” types often shine in tool-based precision roles like surgery. Sylvia also shares personal stories that bring the model to life, including how an information-driven “Smith” profile can show up as a lifelong student of chess, markets, and strategy. The big takeaway we keep coming back to: you don’t need to become someone else to thrive, but you can grow into a healthier version of who you already are.
If you want a clearer way to understand your partner, your coworkers, and yourself, press play, then check out Eric Gee’s resources at projectutopia.com.
To download a free chapter of host Sylvia Worsham’s bestselling book, In Faith, I Thrive: Finding Joy Through God’s Masterplan, purchase any of her products, or book a call with her, visit her website at www.sylviaworsham.com
Transcript:
In this show, your host, Sylvia Warsham, will interview elite experts and ordinary people that have created extraordinary lives. So here’s your host, Sylvia Warsham.
Hey Lightbringers, it’s Sylvia Warsham. Welcome to Released Out Reveal Purpose. And today is Eric Ghee. And I when I read all his reviews on PodMatch, I was like, I really want this guy on my show. He sounds entertaining. He sounds super relatable. And I just couldn’t wait to say, yes, match, match, match. Let me get you on the show. So without further ado, Eric Ghee, thank you so much for joining us on my podcast.
Well, thank you so much for having me. And that’s a lot of pressure. Now I gotta bring out all my jokes. I gotta bring out all the dirty ones and the clean ones. And you can I I grew up Mexican.
If you didn’t think dirty, you didn’t belong. Let’s just put it that way. Lay it on if you want. It’s all good. Even though I’m faith-based, people are like, Are you gonna be clean? I’m like, listen, I have a month that says, I love Jesus, but I cuss a little. That should give you an indication of how I think and how I react and how free-flowing this is gonna be. I always find that I meet people where they’re at. That’s the best way to meet and connect with others. And I know you have tons to share about personality types. This is a hot topic because you can apply this in anything in life. I was in sales, you really needed to know the personality type you were gonna encounter so that you can target the message uh and it make perfect sense and for them to just say, Yeah, I want to buy your product, you know. So tell us more about how you got into personality types, a little bit about your story of transformation, Eric.
Yeah, you know, like it started when I was, I guess, like a lot of people, it started when I was in high school and I was feeling a little odd. I tell this story a lot, I was feeling a little weird, even though maybe I didn’t particularly show it. Um, but inside, like I felt like some of the values that everyone had were different than some of the values that I had, which I think sometimes when we talk about personality, it’s always like, oh, like this person’s like like fantastical and and really spontaneous, and then this person’s really organized and structured. And that’s true too. I think we have those differences, but I think those are kind of superficial. But when you tell people, like, oh, you know, I value family the most, and then another person says, Oh, well, you know, I value work the most, I think sometimes that can cause a lot of conflict because, you know, those are two very different things. They take up two very different sets of time. Um, and so as a student, as a high school student, that’s how I got into it. It was like, wow, I’m feeling really weird. What’s wrong with me? And I just studied a lot and I read this book called Please Understand Me Too, which is like the cheesiest title ever written. Um, but it was a great book and it kind of got me into personality typing. And uh from there, I just, you know, from my college years, I studied a lot about that, and I started an education company where then I was able to work with about a thousand students a year. And through those thousands of students and thousands of parents, we’d I was able to develop my own methodology um through practical research.
You know, yeah, I think we all go through these awkward stages in school. I was buried, so that was really awkward. But uh it it brings me to the question of share with us these personality types that are really prevalent in our society, because I think that would really a good starting point to start this conversation.
Yeah, that’s a that’s a perfect starting point because you know, like people always say, oh, personality types are 16. So I use 16 animal personality types, but the thing that’s unique about my methodology is I first separate people into four personality packs. So you do that first, you’re gonna have shared similarities with people within your pack, but you might not be exactly the same. And there’s one personality pack that makes up about half the population. So I do think when you have that large a group of people sharing the same value, which is safety and security, then that kind of value pervades into other people’s personality or at least other people’s experiences, where you have like teachers telling you to do this, maybe your parents telling you to do this, anyone in a uh position of authority, if they’re this part of this personality pack, I call them gatherers, are gonna tell you, okay, do your homework, follow the rules, uh, make sure that you get good grades, follow the straight path, you know, um, make sure you have a plan, um, make sure you’re responsible and everything’s set, which is great, but that’s not necessarily everybody. And I think that’s not a value system that we need to totally push on everyone. Um, but when you have half the population doing it, it’s it’s pretty rough for those that are not part of that personality pack.
You know, I find it the timing of this is comical because I have I just sent a message to my husband about being the responsible one. Always having to be on. Like my uh there is an Instagram post that talked about how a mom shares with her kid, you know, you were the one that I never had to to fix, I never had to worry about. The problem with that personality type is that you’re always on, you never feel like you can let go. And uh when you’re in relationships, they want you to expose your fun side. It’s a little hard to do that when your nervous system is always on. Uh so I kind of shared that message with my husband saying, you know, this you don’t feel seen or understood, I think at times people misunderstand you because they think you’re you never need that warmth or that that support, not quite security because you’re always on, and it’s because you’re always controlling your circumstances. Is that correct?
Yeah, no, 100%, because you want to feel like when you control things, it makes you feel like things are certain, even though obviously life is not certain, but I think that personality type tries its best to not only make their own life safe and secure, but their loved ones safe and secure, which is really great. But you know, there’s always that kind of like the push and pull with other different personality types telling you, oh no, like like loosen up or like no, like let go. And sometimes it’s not a natural instinct. Like I remember I was when I owned my education company, we would have um we would have training sessions every year. And so they always kind of change up the food every year. I’m like, oh, let’s change it up and like you know, one year we’ll have this, and one year we’ll have this. And so one year we had um falafel. And so this person walked up, one of our tutors walked up, and she was that type. She, you know, liked things safe and secure, had her own world and you know, different things always I didn’t say upset her, but she was always cautious of stuff. So she’s like, Oh, what’s that? I’m like, Oh, it’s falafel. It’s you know, it’s like um ground up chickpeas and then they deep fry it. She’s like, um, I don’t know. She’s standing there in line, and so her friend, who’s right behind her, who’s a very different personality type, was like, Oh, I got one. Give me, and she took two off of it and put it right on her plate. And so the cautious person was like, Okay, I’ll take one. So she ate it, and apparently she liked it because two years later we did the same thing, flawful, and there was another tutor who’s in and was like, Oh, what is that? And I was explaining, trying to start, I was gonna start explaining it to her, but the the first person who had tried it two years before was right behind her in line. She’s like, Oh, it’s flawful, it’s ground-up chickpeas, they deep fry it, it’s great, you should try it. So I think it’s not that people can’t open up their world, it’s just that sometimes people are more conscious of it, so which is fine. Like you have to just people have to grow in different ways, I think.
They do, they do, and I I love the interactions because there’s you mentioned four different personality types that you wanted to get into. You mentioned the secure one, which we’ve already discussed. In this example that you just share, what other personality type showed up?
Oh, so that would be the so I call the gatherers the ones that are about safety and security, right? They’re gathering the harvest, they keep everyone secure, they uh they protect the village. Um, the second one would be the hunters. Because we all need gatherers and we need hunters, and it also shows in terms of the percentage, right? We probably need the most gatherers in a village because it takes a lot of people to gather the harvest and protect the village. Hunters, we also need a lot of, but hunting is dangerous. So, you know, percentage-wise, some hunters die. And so in our population, hunters make up about a third of the population, and their value is excitement, visceral excitement. I always say, like, they want to be on the roller coaster and get thrown around and feel like they’re gonna die. Now they know they’re not gonna die, but just that feeling of maybe I will excites them. And you can imagine in interacting with a gatherer, the gatherer would be like, why would I ever want to feel that way? I want to like just be somewhere where I can relax, have a massage and chill out on vacation, where the hunter’s like, hey, let’s go bungee jumping, you know, and like things like that, because they really like that feeling, that visceral feeling of or in that sensation. Um, and in that case, that was definitely a hunter because they’re like, Oh, sure, let’s try it. I’ve never I don’t know what falafel is either, but that sounds great. I’m gonna try two of them, you know. And it’s that push and pull is actually quite fascinating because that’s the most common couples type. Yes.
My husband is the let’s try the falafel, and I’m the secure one, but I also think a lot of the programming that we receive early on kind of sets us up. I don’t think it’s all biological. In your case, the personality types are they DNA, biological, or is it a combination of the two?
You know, I don’t I don’t really know. Like I I obviously there’s no scientific evidence. So I always just say, look, your personality type gets established probably usually around five or six. Um it just sometimes it’s a little bit easier to see. Um, and then the way that you interact with what you’re in. Like a lot of people say, oh, I’m from, you know, like I’m this gender, right? I’m uh, you know, a girl or a boy, so I’m gonna act this way. But what I found just, you know, we would have thousands of students, right? So, you know, boys and girls. And it was not particularly consistent, just in my own life as well. You know, I have an older sister, and oftentimes people think not only with gender, but birth order, right? So people think, oh, you’re the oldest sibling is gonna be the responsible one, they’re gonna be the one to make sure everyone follows the rules. And then obviously, if it’s a girl, they tend to be a little more familial. I mean, those are all the assumptions that we make. My sister was not like that at all. She’s the hunter. Not only is she a hunter, but she’s a shark personality type, which is one of the hunter types. So she’s just like, no, what’s my first job out of college? I’m gonna go on an Alaskan deep sea fishing boat and explore, you know, versus my younger brother, who’s different.
In your model, can you have a like not a hundred percent all one personality type, but could you have 50% of one and 50% of the other, or or that doesn’t work?
Generally, since it’s a val it’s value-based, you don’t really split it up as much as you’re gonna have more similarities with people within your pack. Now, it doesn’t mean that you can’t do. I’m always saying, like, like everyone can do everything, right? Like, it’s not like, oh, you’re this personality pack, so you can’t do the things that other people do, or you can’t like the things that other people like. But I always encourage people to find what you are first and find that anchor because certain personality types, there’s so few of them in the population, and they just get pummeled with, okay, everything that you value is wrong, you know, you need to be able to be like us. And it’s not like you can’t be like other people, but I always say, is it healthy to try to become something that you’re not? And I don’t think so. I think it’s more about like find what is your purpose. What is your purpose in life? Because we all have different purposes. Yeah, we need hunters, we need gatherers, but we also need some of the other types, and those other types are just not as prevalent, right? Because if you have a gatherer’s makeup half the population, hunters make up third, that’s leaving only like 15% of the other two personality packs, but we need them as well. And so I’m always like, I’m not a big believer in change. I don’t think people can change. I think if you change your personality type, that means that you’re becoming something you’re not, or in a good way, you’re discovering that what you thought you were was not true, and you’re finally finding your true self.
Yes, I’m kind of of a person that there are some fixed things about personalities, but there’s also flexible aspects to it. And I do think because I was trained differently, I was trained under the the John Maxwell team, and so as a life coach, we tend to look at how programming really played a role in developing these belief systems that we then kind of operate from, and then I’m faith-based, so I’m now as a spiritual transformative coach, I kind of apply God, God, and biblical um teachings on you know, who did God create you to be? And you’re a certain person, you value these certain things because that’s what you saw at home. But who are you really? You know, who are you without all the layers that you’ve piled on all these years? So I think personality types are always like fun to apply because I do you do see them act out differently in in I I remember in corporate settings, like sitting in in Pfizer meetings, I could see clear, like we would do the disc personality types. You know, you had the ones that were so the eye personalities that were uh I always called them the me, me, me, me, me, like focus on me type of personalities, and you would see them in meetings, they would have all these ideas, you know, and then you had the drivers that were all about the solution. They wanted to cut through all that nonsense that the eyes were talking about and just get to the action part of things. Then you had the S’s that were like sitting back and just kind of observing, they wouldn’t speak, but they’re taking notes and they could sense like the the shifts in everybody, they could see all these things that the D’s totally missed and the I’s wouldn’t even look at. And then you had uh the C’s, which are my husband and me, the analytical personalities that were like, you know, we need to know what the problems are first before we can’t come up with a solution because we need to be able to predict like what’s gonna happen, and you see these personalities kind of like interacting with each other and they could clash if they don’t know how to operate and what you know what works for them, they’ll walk away from you. I remember being in Sales Advisor, most of them were drivers, they were action. Doctors don’t have time, so I had to get straight to the point. I was a C. So I would ask questions, and then if they didn’t have the time to answer, they would just walk away. You know, I would have to walk with them and say, Hey doctor, do you have like maybe three minutes of your time? And then I pay attention to how they were dressed. You could tell right away what personality type they were, just they present themselves. So can you speak to that in your in your model? Like how how can I identify a hunter or a gatherer or do and and maybe do share the other two personality types that you want?
Yeah, I want to talk about I like how you said layers, right? Because I do think that’s kind of what I love about personality types, is that yeah, the way someone appears might show something, but when you start peeling back the layers, especially with culture, I think especially like with the way we’re brought up, some especially certain personality types will totally buy into that and go, I should be this way. But that shouldn’t always be the case. Like I always say, like, if you’re a peacock personality type, and I think people can understand what a peacock might be like, very showy, they’re very big into hugs and physical contact, right? Like, and you grow up in a traditional Japanese household in Japan, it’s gonna be pretty rough. Like, physical contact is not necessarily part of a traditional East Asian home. Um, and you know, they might be telling you like a square peg doesn’t fit into a round hole or whatever. Like they they’re telling they don’t want you to like show, be so showy. And on the flip side, like if you grow up in, if you’re a let’s say a shark, like a friend of mine is a shark personality type, they are all about their own personal space, they do not like to be touched, they want to be analytical and just keep everyone away. He’s human. So, you know, his family is all about the kisses and hey, how’s it going? You know, and it was so difficult for him growing up too, because he was like, gosh, I just don’t want my cousins touching me like that, you know. And I think in general, like when you start peeling back, it’s okay. Like culture, obviously, what we grow up in is is cool and it’s it makes us like a lot of who we are, but it’s not necessarily at our core, you know, and I think finding that core is so important because that’s like you said, that’s what our purpose, right? If you find our purpose, that’s the most important thing. And if you you when you have a differences in purpose, like you said, they we tend to clash. But I think understanding that yes, we there is a clash, but that clash is often how we grow. You know, I don’t believe that people can change, but I do believe people can grow. And I think we can grow, I I always say we can grow into either better versions of ourselves or worse versions of ourselves, and that’s why it’s so important to figure out who we are, and so that we can get on that right path of figuring out okay, what’s the best possible version of myself that I can learn about and grow and become a more like evolved individual versus kind of going down the wrong path.
The the shark is you you said you use like animals, right?
So the shark is which one again?
They’re they’re they’re actually a hunter. So they’re yeah, so they’re into visual. It’s funny, they are actually in the same personality pack as a peacock. And that’s that shows that even when you have the same value of visceral excitement, like you can be very different. Like the shark would not be into physical contact, the peacock would because their peacocks are all into consumption. They they love attention. They’re like, look at me.
They’re the eyes in the disc process. Yeah, yeah, they’re first-time eyes. Yeah, and I’ve I’ve learned about different personality types and whether they’re internally motivated, externally motivated. I mean, they have all sorts of like gimmicks, and you’re like, okay, this is confusing. So give me a breakdown of yours. Like, say, I meet your Cuban shark hunter friend, uh-huh. And um, how do you go about determining who I am, for example? What do you need to know about me?
Yeah, I mean, well, for me, I I tend to use little like details, but because I’ve been doing it so long. So, like, even if someone dresses a certain way, I’m like, oh, okay, like that kind of pushes me in this, and then I start asking confirmation questions. Like I once asked someone, do you love wine tasting? And she was like, I love capital and all L-O-V-E. Love wine tasting. I’m like, okay, you’re a butterfly. And so you only asked me one question. I’m like, yeah, but I kind of already had a feeling where you’re at, and that was my confirmation. And the fact that it’s not necessarily the answer, but how someone answers something can often tell me a lot about someone too, right?
But let’s say oh, what would that be? Out of curiosity.
You know, well, a lot of the things you’ve said, like definitely push towards the gather pack. Okay. Like safety and security, you mentioned that. But within the gather pack, like there’s very different types. So I would say that when I get into the gather pack, uh, you they either split up in a different way than hunters would be split up. Since gatherers seek safety and security, it’s kind of now split up. How do you get safety and security? So some gatherers get it by doing their duty, you know, like what am I supposed to do following the rules? This is like authority, this is like how I am like gonna be an outstanding individual individual in society, and others get their safety and security by family, like keeping a and so you seem like family, more family-oriented. Um, so that would push you into either an elephant or a bear.
I love it. Elephant is my favorite animal. In fact, if I could sh- I wish I could turn my camera around. Uh, my husband’s a woodworker, and for Valentine’s Day in 2021, this thing is massive. And he like by hand, I mean it’s gorgeous. It’s an elephant face. Oh man, you have to display it working, and and I may do it after the interview so that we’re not like messing things up, but I have to show it to you because when you said elephant, I was like, I’ll be the elephant, I’m okay with that.
I’m so disappointed because I was going to like I was leading up to I wanted to surprise you because it was elephant, was where I was going. And I know it’s gonna sound like I made that up because you just said that, but um, I was elephant, you’d be an elephant personality type because once then you’re either an elephant or a bear, and bears are about like protecting the family that they have, but and elephants are always about bringing people into their family. And the fact that you’d mentioned you’re taking care of uh your dot’s best friend, you know, like it they’re the they’re the parent who’s always like, Oh, you want to like come over for dinner? Yeah, invite keep your friends over here for dinner. Yeah, like we’ll provide, yeah. We’ll just like you know, yeah, that’s a total elephant, like that’s why we call elephants, because elephants herd. Um, so yeah, so that’s how the breakdown goes, but you’d be very different than let’s say a beaver, which is on the other side of the gathers. Beavers, not that they aren’t like family-oriented, of course, gathers in general are all gonna like family, but a beaver would be a lot more, seem a lot more strict, maybe a less warm, they’re less warm. They’re definitely gonna seem more serious. They’re gonna be a little bit, they’re definitely more detail-oriented than an elephant. Elephants are detail-oriented, but beavers are very, very detail-oriented. Um, so it’s kind of cool because even within a set value, there are really different personalities that are gonna be very different and have different experiences with them that can really diversify our experience of the world.
Do they fall into like different uh have you found them to fall into uh similar careers? Like say the beavers are almost always engineers, are they are almost always programmers? Have you found that parallel or that yeah?
It’s it’s really interesting. I I’m always uh cautious because I don’t want to say, oh, if you’re this type, you have to be this career, or vice versa. You know, but yeah, I mean it’s it’s based on what we our values tend to dictate what we love doing. And you know, if we’re lucky enough, we get to maybe do something that we love because oftentimes we’ll be good at it. I I’m not a Believer in saying if you’re this personality type, you’re automatically good at something, but you’re gonna automatically probably like something. I think the things that we like we do more, and the more you do it, the better you get.
Because it’s your gift, and and it doesn’t feel like work. You don’t want it to feel like work, you want it to excite you and to move you through life in a very exciting way. Um, sometimes it’s not so exciting, but that’s always life, you know. You kind of go through the pumps and of things. But for me, I I sat down before I became an author and said, What can I do that I love to do that doesn’t feel like work? And that’s when God, you know, said, You’re a writer, you’re you’re meant to be an author. And I’ve done when I reflected back in my life, the clues were all there. I was very good when I was in fifth grade. I had teachers that highly encouraged my writing. And it’s weird that I didn’t fall into that track in college, but it’s it it’s because you know you have different circumstances and experiences, and it kind of influences, influence what you fall into. Or sometimes the programming comes into play and you fall trapped to what others expect you to be.
Right.
Yeah. And you fall into those worlds.
Yeah, and even as a writer, writers come from different, you know, obviously everybody writes or everybody can write, and but based on what your personality is, it’s probably gonna dictate your writing style, what you want to write about. Like, are you writing something like as an elephant? Elephants tend to write about like family or bringing people together in a community. Um, they tend to be a little bit warmer per se, but if you get like uh a fox type like Hemingway, they’re gonna write about you know bull fights and you know, like traveling the world. Right. Um, and like you’d mentioned before, beavers do tend to be a lot of structural engineers. It’s very and if they are software engineers, they tend to focus on coding versus maybe design.
Beavers I’m sorry, no, go ahead.
Oh no, I was just saying beavers aren’t always the best, even though they’d hate hearing that because they think they’re very good at design, but they’re not always the best at design because they’re detail-oriented, they might not necessarily be thinking that much outside of the box, but they’re masters within the box. Um, so yeah, engineers, accountants. You’re gonna find a lot of beavers as accountants, um, and auditors. Um, so yeah, like various positions for various types generally.
So now I’m curious, where would electrical engineers fall?
So electrical electrical engineer can be different, like there’s a couple different ones, like beavers for sure. Um the way that you described your husband, though, like it sounds a whole lot more like he’s a hunter, because you invention, and but he and he can be he’s probably a shark. That would be my guess, especially because you said he carved the the elephant for you, right? Sharks are the best with their hands and using they love that, but they’re also gonna be engineering, would be a field that they might go into too because it’s very precise. It’s a little bit precision is a little different than being detail-oriented, but it can also be very similar. So your husband might not be the person who wants to loves to do the taxes and like okay, we gotta like this is so fun doing these tax tedious taxes. Yeah. But you know, if it’s like something that they love, like if something hunters love, they are gonna be very detail-oriented in that craft. Um, and so the shark is a perfect example of that. Um, and so like I definitely think that’s probably in the realm of what your husband is.
Yes, he actually is phenomenal with his hands. He does woodworking, he also has made the Halloween costumes for our daughter, and she has had some really like she’s into wings of fire, and she’s into um for a long time Minecraft, and so he created um for Wings of Fire and just how to train your dragon. They did uh Toothless, he created the whole costume for toothless, the head, everything, and then the wings that extended, and he would have like the strength, like he did it all mechanical. He was going to do it like with a remote control, but it just I’m like Donnie, you’re gonna set the stage to where she’s gonna expect this every Halloween, dude. You’re not gonna have any time to yourself, you know. And but he goes, I really enjoy this, but it is a lot of work, and he did. I mean, the detail to it was I’ll also have to show you, I’ll share, I’ll send you a picture of the of the thing. It it just I I can’t sew for the life of me. I’m like, no, no, no. That’s that’s not he can do that.
How bizarre. Like, no, sewing is a really big thing. You know, the funny thing is sharks are not not, I don’t know about your husband, sharks are not always the best students when they’re back in school because they’re so into like they their preference in learning is to grab things and move them around. And you know, that’s not always what school encourages. They want to move and they want to like, and so like sitting there and listening to a teacher talk and having to memorize stuff is not always their cup of tea. But the funny thing is, most surgeons are sharks, or a lot of surgeons, a large percentage of surgeons are sharks, so that’s why there’s so few of them because there it takes, you know, surgeons are great with their hands, right? Like that literally, you know, an uncle of mine is a cardiovascular, and you watch surgery, like, really, so really, he’s just sewing. That’s his job. It’s sewing with the forceps, you know, and I mean it’s super hard and the stakes are very high, but it’s not like they’re making any calculations in their head as they’re doing the sewing. It’s just like very, it’s like plumbing, basically plumbing and sewing as a cardiovascular. Um, so that’s why there’s so few surgeons because the best surgeons are sharks, but they have to get through all that schooling, and sometimes it’s not always in a shark’s um sharks don’t always love that. I mean, once they get to medical school, it’s generally okay because you give them a body and they start dissecting and they’re like, okay, this is fun.
Well, and it’s interesting because um my dad uh he passed away last year, but he was a urologist. And I remember as you were talking about the sewing, it just made me laugh because it brought me to a story that I wished to share, if that’s okay. Yeah. He uh when he did his training in in um in Houston, Texas, he went to MD Anderson and he trained under a Chinese um surgeon, and the surgeon was showing them how to sew with a hair. Like I was like, and my father had huge hands. I’m like, oh that must have sucked. And he goes, the first couple of days, he goes, I was so frustrated, I wanted to quit. And he told him, Jose, you know, you need to have patience, and he goes, This is really my father. He’s like, Hey, come, you need to practice, you need to and he goes, and and that was for microsurgery because you know you’re having to do these very delicate procedures. And and he said, I loved training under him, but it was so frustrating. And so I suspect my father was a shark because we always when you look at um psychology, I don’t know if it was Freud that that well Freud was always thinking that the the boys were like attracted to their mothers. That’s not what I mean here. I was not attracted to my dad, by the way. I do find that there’s like some um we get attracted to qualities that we find in our male role models in my father. I would find it very easily in my husband. I find that there’s similarities between electrical engineers and surgeons, they have to be very, very precise, or things can go bad really fast. It’d be dangerous too. So um when you said shark, I was like, well, that explains a lot.
Yeah, and there’s a lot of tools, right? They’re both using tools.
Scalpholes and and scopes and you know, all these things that they use in surgery. I mean, all the instruments, there’s like a whole slew of them depending on the surgery they’re trying to do. And as a urologist, that the I mean those surgeries could go on forever.
And it’s funny that, you know, surgeons, they’re generally the favorite um hobby for surgeons is either fishing or golf. And those are hobbies that are clearly tool-based as well. Like, oh, let me use this line, this rod, this club, and it’s like it just translates.
So let me ask a crazy question. My father was not good with his hands outside of surgery. He was not like my husband in that aspect. He was someone that was very cerebral and loved to read like financial books, loved to follow the stock market. He was also a guy that played chess. He was all into it. So, where would he fall in?
You know, actually, he’s sounding more like oh, so I didn’t even mention the other two minority packs. I call them minority packs because there’s so few of them, but there’s the shamans and the Smiths. And he sounds more like a Smith. A Smith is priority. You know how the uh hunters, their priority was excitement. Um, the Smiths’ priority or value, I should say, is um information. So they tend to be very good students. Maybe school, like lower, I don’t say lower level school, but elementary school and maybe high school, not as fun for them. But when they get to like college, like the university level, that’s where they really because that that analysis, they’re really strong analytically. Like I know a lot of people always want to say they’re strong analytically, but compared to a Smith, no, because Smiths are often in their head, and the fact that he liked to play chess and was always reading, those are just things that are much more uh internal. Um, and that would be something like so with uh surgery, he probably was good at it because he practiced, because he was he found he was interested in it, but like maybe not necessarily supernatural at it like your husband. But there’s they’re um so yeah, he would be probably a Smith, and within the Smith category, he could be the way described maybe a spider or an owl, just depending on the like because they’re very different, spiders and owls but how you what you’ve described of your father so far, I would say one of the two. Spider is very calculating.
Okay, and owls?
Owl owls are owls are more like if you meet an owl you’re like, wow, that person’s really quiet, like kind of like Einstein, but they’re very gentle, kind of quiet, whereas spider is a lot more like serious calculating, and you’re like, huh, are they planning my demise inside? Like that’s kind of like those are the two. He had a golden heart.
He had a very people often mistook him. He had a really serious face. He also came from you know, a highly abusive household, so that also can play into that seriousness and that sense of responsibility because you have to take charge um when you have an abusive household that you live in.
So I’m like, I don’t know, he would it would be a tricky one to take a look at because I was gonna say, did he, but he did take charge of his like when he was in that household. Because I would say that a spider actually, the difference between a spider or an owl, if it’s between those two, an owl will pull away from their family members members and maybe not necessarily try to protect or take charge of the individuals in the household, and a spider would try to take charge. That would be the difference in their reaction to that um that situation. Um, so interesting.
Interesting. I don’t know because he had he was somebody that was very generous with his knowledge, he always wanted people to succeed. Um, he was generous with his money, he was generous with his time. Even in retirement, he didn’t understand the concept of retirement. And so he was constantly going, he’d go and um it was known as the bullshit hour, and he would sit uh and all of his colleagues would sit next to him and he would share all the stocks that they needed to invest in so that they could retire earlier. He was already retired, but he he retired because he had a brain tumor that developed uh from his exposure to Agent Orange when he was sent to Vietnam as a surgeon when he came to this country, because he came from Monterrey, Mexico, and walked into the visa office. And the first question they asked was like, Hey, are you willing to fight for Vietnam? And he was like, I already knew what the answer had to be if I wanted the visa. And so he said yes, but they didn’t want him as a soldier, they wanted him as a surgeon. Oh, okay. And so he went uh as an officer, but you still get bombed and you still get exposed. Oh, and they all got exposed to Agent Orange because they left in um see, he came to the states in 67, he was uh sent in 69, and that was when all that was going on. Like 69 to 71, I think were the years that were they threw down Agent Orange and exposed to all these soldiers, and so every time you open up a body, you’re gonna be exposed to whatever’s on the inside. That’s why you cover up and have everything. But in war zones, you don’t really have all of that available to you, so you should be doing that. Um I was just curious about my dad because I always found some similarities between him and my husband, and that’s normal. Your mind is going to be attracted to what you see at home, and it’s gonna be normal to you, and so you’re gonna say, Oh, that’s that should be fine. And you look at that guy, and and then lo and behold, the same personality type as as the dad.
Well, the interesting thing is, well, then I mean, not I don’t believe in soulmates per se, you know, because I just don’t believe in soulmates, but theoretically, there are personality types that gel better romantically with others.
Okay, so do share. There’s an often gel with a what did you call a shark?
A shark, yes. I mean, and this is gonna sound like I’m making it up because but theoretically is actually a perfect match. And I can tell you why. Because I mentioned like gatherers and hunters would are the most common coupling. And you might go like what’s it’s odd because you might assume gatherer-gatherers would be the most common coupling just by pure math. If half the population are gatherers, and also since gathers prioritize family quite a bit, and creating a family, starting a family, hunters don’t always prioritize starting a family, especially early. They’re like, hey, I gotta have my fun, you know. Um, so like you think that the gather-gatherer would be the most common coupling, but no, it’s the gather-hunter because I think instinctively gatherers look at a hunter and go, you know what? I like this person, they’re very different than me, but those differences are very attractive. And I feel like I this is obvious in the subconscious, I can compliment that person well. So where they’re spontaneous and they like to do these things, I can bring the responsible parental aspect to it, right? And the hunter, vice versa, is like, oh, you know, I just want to have fun, da-da-da-da-da. I have fun with people, but then they realize, you know, the hunters they’re having fun with are not the most secure of individuals, and they’re always like a hunter-hunter relationship tends to burn hot and very fast. Yeah, and the hunters start seeing gavers like, oh, that person’s like really steady. I feel like protected when I’m with them, I feel like secure, and that’s an attractive trait, you know.
Oh, that makes sense.
Yeah, and so with elephants and sharks specifically, sharks aren’t always the most the warm, then they’re not the warmest of people. I’m not saying that your husband’s not warm, but compared to like an elephant, they’re not necessarily as warm. An elephant is very, very warm. And so, yeah, so the elephant brings family and friendliness, and like, hey, let’s do this thing, let’s do this social event together. And a shark’s like, uh, all right, okay, I’ll just do it. Um, and then of course the shark brings, like, you know what you’re saying with your daughters, like Halloween. Shark’s like, no, this is fun for me. Like, look, we’re gonna create these fun things for our family that you know, our kids can have a lot of fun with this, and it’s not no problem for me, it’s a lot of work, but I enjoy doing it, you know, and so that’s how they compliment each other.
That’s awesome. Thank you for that. Makes me feel better that I’m in the right union. Um, any last-minute words of empowerment for those in, and I know you had your your you just released a book, is that correct?
Uh I released my book, it was published last year. So The Power of Personality, um, yeah, you can get it on Amazon or wherever you buy books, really. If you want to go to your local bookstore and support them, that’s great as well.
Or how about on your webpage? Can they go on your webpage and purchase the book or not?
You can go on my webpage and there are links to obviously Amazon and like other, you know, oh yeah, I don’t, I mean, I don’t sell it. Well, I guess there’s a link to my publisher on there as well. Okay. Um, so yeah, you can uh get go on my webpage, which is projectutopia.com. Okay. Um and you can also take the test to figure out what animal type you are. And I always put the disclaimer look, it’s a cookie cutter online test. So of course, like it may be correct, it may be not. It’s up to really the user. Um, so I always encourage people if you just take the test, and if it seems fun and interesting, then purchase the book and the book will really teach you how to become the test.
Awesome. Oh my gosh, it was so incredible getting to know you, Eric. I so I know you can tell. I was so into the interview because I was asking questions, I was really intrigued. I’m definitely gonna get your book because I really want to know now. And probably we’ll take your test just to see if I’m truly the elephant type. But um uh thank you.
You don’t need the test. You don’t need the test, I’m so sure of it.
I uh I appreciate your time today, and I appreciate your enthusiasm. You’re just a ray of sunshine, and uh this world could use more of Eric out there. I can say that very definitively. Um and for the listeners of Release That Reveal Purpose, boy, are you in for a treat with this interview? And do visit uh Eric’s website, do support him and and support yourself by going on there and understanding more about the people that you live with so that you can communicate better with them. And uh for the listeners of release out reveal purpose, remember Matthew 514, be delight. Have a wonderful week, stay safe, love y’all. Bye now.
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