Danielle Bernock shares her journey through childhood trauma, religious trauma, and spiritual trauma to find redemption and healing through faith and personal work.
• Childhood trauma creates invisible wounds that affect our relationships and self-perception
• Many trauma survivors don’t recognize their experiences as trauma, instead blaming themselves
• Trauma is personal and affects each person differently, regardless of the triggering event
• Religious trauma differs from spiritual trauma and church hurt in essential ways
• Shame is one of the most destructive forces keeping trauma survivors stuck
• Unconditional love serves as powerful medicine for trauma recovery
• “Mind management” involves becoming the conscious manager of your thoughts
• Healing requires connection – don’t try to recover from trauma alone
• Finding the proper support through counseling, coaching, books, or supportive relationships
• Being patient with yourself during the healing process is essential
For more information about Danielle’s work, books, and resources, visit daniellebernock.com.
Transcript:
Speaker 1:
If you’ve ever struggled with fear, doubt or worry and wondering what your true purpose was all about, then this podcast is for you. In this show, your host, sylvia Worsham, will interview elite experts and ordinary people that have created extraordinary lives. So here’s your host, sylvia Worsham.
Speaker 2:
Hey, Lightbringers, it’s Sylvia Worsham. Welcome to Release Reveal Purpose. In today is Danielle Bernock, and she and I met on Podmatchcom and for those that don’t know what Podmatch is, think of Matchcom, but for podcast hosts and guests and that’s essentially how we landed. We both have conversations about faith often in our everyday lives and that’s probably why she landed with Released Out Revealed Purpose. So, without further ado, Danielle, thank you so much for joining us this morning.
Speaker 3:
Thank you for having me. It’s a delight. I love doing interviews on podcasts. I’ve done so many of them and I love how every single one is different.
Speaker 2:
Yes, I love those two. I love being guests, but I also really like being the host to kind of guide others, because I find that I really enjoy showcasing and empowering people to to step into their lights. That’s why I always introduce hey, light bringers, because we’re all light bringers and we bring so much light to this world. We sometimes just get stuck in our own darkness and so that’s why the, the podcast um, exists.
Speaker 2:
Right is to shine a very big bright light on the guests that are here. So, without further ado, tell us, danielle, what is this beautiful story of transformation you have to share with us.
Speaker 3:
Oh, my story is a very large and long, messy story, but when I was doing one of my keynotes, just a little phrase kept coming through to sum it up because long and messy. I have a whole book, so we don’t have that long but the thing that kept coming up as I was telling my story was redemption so deep, redemption so deep. I’m a childhood trauma survivor that didn’t know I was a childhood trauma survivor, like many childhood trauma survivors are like that. They don’t know, they just know. Maybe my childhood was a little rough, maybe you know some things happen and they brush it off as if it’s nothing, or they shame themselves and blame themselves for all the issues that they have going on in their life. But they don’t understand that trauma is the problem and it’s not them that they have been affected by it. I knew that I was messed up so I tried to get un-messed up.
Speaker 3:
After the Lord got a hold of me again as a little kid, our family went to church for a little bit until there was a problem and then my parents didn’t go to church. But I continued to go to church. I took the bus until I had spiritual and religious trauma at the church and then I stopped going there for that, as they publicly rejected me in front of the entire church when I was a child. So I had trouble with the church. I had trouble with God. I had different people die in my life that I blamed God for. But I had trauma at home, trauma in the neighborhood, trauma at church and trauma at school. So pretty much every area of my life had suffered from some kind of trauma by the time I was 18, I was just a walking mess, an absolute walking mess. I was angry at God. I blamed him for everything, because what I had been taught was either erroneous or insufficient. So I had no correct concept of God. But I love to tell people he doesn’t care, he loves you. He loves you right where you’re, at right what you’re doing, he loves you and he will pursue you.
Speaker 3:
My first book that I wrote, which led me into all the things that I do now, called Emerging with Wings. I call the spirit of grace, or the Holy Spirit the pursuer. My story is written like a love story with a hero, villain, person overcoming and overcoming, and the hero is the pursuer, because he pursues us not like a stalker, but like a lover, like someone who is enamored with us, like it’s written in the book of Hosea, that he allures her out into the wilderness. That alluring, that wooing. He pursued me and he pursued me until I finally caved in and said, okay, fine, and let him in my life again.
Speaker 3:
But all of that trauma in the back muddied my relationship with him. It was real and it was real. I actually accepted Jesus as a child and went through all the rigmarole of getting baptized and declaration of faith and all of that. So I believe that you know that was real back then. But we hear stories of people who are giving birth and abortionists that they will take the live baby and throw it in the garbage can. Sometimes that’s how I view my new birth as a child that I got born and thrown into the garbage can, kind of like a spiritual abortion that took place. I had an orphan spirit, I was any way you could be messed up.
Speaker 3:
The only kind of trauma I did not suffer was sexual trauma, which was one reason why I dismissed my trauma, because that is obvious. People seem to know, recognize that it’s war, it’s a tsunami, it’s a plane crash, it’s 9-11, it’s, you know, being raped or being sexually abused. So I dismissed my trauma as my fault and just, I didn’t know the word trauma when I was growing up. Trauma wasn’t even a part of the English language, much. But as I started, you know, seeking the Lord in my messed up way, he was so faithful, he was so faithful way he was so faithful. He was so faithful, he’s so kind, he’s so patient and he brought a man into my life that he assigned to me as a husband and this was life altering to me.
Speaker 3:
My husband is chapter three in my first book and he was my first encounter with unconditional love. He was my first encounter with someone loving me when I wasn’t perfect. I tried to make him go away because of my trauma. I tried to get rid of him at the beginning of our relationship because I was so afraid. But God, god understands, and I share this story with people repeatedly to let people know you can try and run away from the Lord, but he knows what’s going on in your heart and he will wait, just like that good father. He will wait until you’re ready. He will wait for you and he loves you. He loves you deeply, he loves you unconditionally and he wants what’s best for you.
Speaker 3:
That’s part of the definition of love is seeing the value in a person and wanting what is best for them. It’s not letting them do whatever they want because that’s not best for them. You wouldn’t let your two-year-old run into the street, right, right. You would stop them because that’s not best for them. So that’s not best for them. So that’s how I define love is seeing the value and doing what is best. And he loves us so deeply and he came alongside me and walked me to where I am now. I have been married for 45 years now to the same man and it has been a long, messy, messy journey, but god has been faithful all along the way, even when I yelled at him, telling him how he was not faithful because of my perception of where I was, at what I thought faithful looked like, what I wanted, what I thought I needed, what I felt, the pain in my soul, the wounds in my soul, because that’s what trauma is.
Speaker 3:
Trauma is a wound on the inside of a human that has occurred from something they have gone through, that left a mark, and two people can go through the exact same thing and come through it differently. So trauma is personal. That’s a quote from my first book that went viral. That was an epiphany to me that trauma is personal. Trauma isn’t identified by the event. Those are called trauma exposure. They’re a situation where trauma could occur or where people recognize that trauma could occur. Because we can’t quantify where trauma can occur, we can try to understand it and share it so that people can get understanding.
Speaker 3:
But trauma happens whenever it happens, because it happens where you cannot see. It’s an invisible wound on the inside of a person. And I get asked many times can someone be traumatized and not know it? Absolutely, absolutely. And you can be traumatized more than you thought you were Also, which was my case. Once I came to know that trauma is what I was dealing with and started to address it in the ways that I could find how. Then, when I went into counseling to write my first book when I was 55 or 54, my counselor unpacked the whole second half of my book of things I had no idea were trauma. They were just my life, and so that’s why I have an assessment at my website to help people see is that what’s causing your issue and you don’t dismiss it? Because when we dismiss what happened to us and we dismiss our pain, we are dismissing ourself, and that’s unhealthy. We won’t have a healthy life and we can’t even walk with God in a healthy way when we are so wounded on the inside like that.
Speaker 2:
No, and you’ve got to get the pain, you got to work through the pain and it has to be acknowledged and seen for what it is and exactly and acknowledged for the patterns that created in our body and the habits and everything that goes along with that, because we don’t realize how everything is tied and what library our mind is using to remind us and to whisper to us and that’s where the doubt comes in. It’s our own overthinking, our own programming of our own mind you know if the trauma happened when we were two years old.
Speaker 1:
It’s not like you’re gonna remember yeah, but your body remembers and your mind?
Speaker 2:
your subconscious mind remembers because it has no filter, and that’s the scary part. So some of us are walking around this trauma and don’t even know it, until you go into therapy and they start going deeper and deeper and deeper into your mind. And then, all of a sudden, some of these things that you never thought were connected are totally connected and you’re like how is is this possible?
Speaker 2:
it’s possible because of the beliefs that they form inside of you yeah these are the ones that drive the thoughts and the feelings and the actions and the reactions, everything that we do on a daily basis you know, so I just, I find it intriguing and fascinating how you went into this, like saying, okay, I want to get. Fascinating how you went into this, like saying, okay, I want to get unmessed like I’m messy and I just, I just want to fix this and I find it so intriguing because a lot of people don’t.
Speaker 2:
A lot of people are too scared to find out so they avoid working through it. Have you ever encountered that in your work with others?
Speaker 3:
the way that I have encountered, that is, the people who will schedule a discovery call to begin the process and then not show up because they’re not showing up for themselves. Yeah, and they won’t show up if they’re not ready to deal with it. And it wasn’t that I had any great skill or anything like that, I was just desperate. I was in so much pain. I just wanted to make the pain stop, just make the pain stop. And I had tried going into counseling earlier in my life and that counselor re-traumatized me, so that did not work well, traumatized me, so that did not work well. I read a book that was helpful. Then I came to know Joyce Meyer, who is a minister who had suffered trauma, and that’s the first encounter I had with another human who had suffered trauma and had any kind of a action plan or any way to address it. There was no help. Back then I found one book. I went to counseling and found someone who blamed it all on me and I had to work harder and try harder and there was no help. And I have a completely different kind of trauma than Joyce Meyer, but still she talked about trauma and she talked about the she didn’t call them trauma triggers or effects or side effects. She didn’t use any of that language, she just talked about her behaviors and hers. I had similar ones from her, so she’s a big part of my story.
Speaker 3:
Early on, and with her book, battlefield of the Mind was the first time that I came to know that you can do something with your mind. I had no idea, absolutely no idea. I had been told change your attitude. I didn’t know what an attitude was and I didn’t know how to change it. All I did was shame myself for being in that place. All I did was shame myself for being in that place. Shame is the most insidious thing on the planet that will keep someone stuck in their trauma. I have a no shame zone. I believe shame is never good at any time, for any reason, and I will, as they say, die on that hill, so to speak. Of that. Shame did not come in until after the fall. Shame attacks the person’s identity. Guilt and shame are two completely different things. So no shame.
Speaker 2:
And actually oftentimes people confuse the two and say oh, guilt shame and the same Nope.
Speaker 2:
Shame is I am wrong. That’s the difference. It’s an identity piece versus guilt. Is you’re doing this wrong or shaming, you know? So there’s a difference between it. I actually had another interview where she’s a psychotherapist and she wrote she’s about to release her book on complex shame, and that’s a different level of shame altogether than the normal kind, and so I we had a really interesting conversation and she’s the one that said there’s a huge difference between guilt and shame, and so I encourage people to listen to that podcast interview.
Speaker 2:
When it releases it’s Dr Zoe Shaw. It was really enlightening because these are people that themselves also suffered religion trauma, just like you, and that can confuse our relationship with Christ Like that can really throw in, because people it’s the same concept. They want to. They think religion and faith is the same word. It’s the same concept and it is very different. In my case faith is the relationship you have with him and the trust that you have with him when you trust.
Speaker 2:
God you step out in faith. Whether you see your path or not, Religion doesn’t teach us that Religion talks a lot about rules and regulations within the church. That religion talks a lot about rules and regulations within the church and when you and you’re bad when you do this.
Speaker 2:
that’s not how god talks, and if you read his word, that is not his character at all, and so I always find that people will confuse the two, and I always tell people no, I’m faith-based, I’m not. Do not call me religious for that reason that right away people will be like, well, I don’t believe in God, so I shouldn’t listen to you. And I said, well, you’d be interested to know that I also had periods of time where I turned away from him for 10 years, just like after your religious trauma. You turned away and you blamed him. I did too. I came from the Catholic side of things, and when I married my first husband and there was a lot of hypocrisy there in my first marriage he would go to church and he, you know, showcased me like his you know beautiful wife and he loved me so much. And then we got home and it was a completely different person.
Speaker 1:
And.
Speaker 2:
I just kept experiencing the hypocrisy. I would see people at church and they would act so good and then, the minute they would step out of that church, they turned into Jekyll and Hyde and it was a completely different thing. And when you’re young and you don’t have that relationship with him yet, because I say yet, because God never gives up on us, ever he chases us. He waits for us patiently outside the door and he’s not going to be somebody that barges in he’s going to wait till you ask him, but he will give you some promptings.
Speaker 2:
He will kind of like lightly knock on you, and that’s something that he did with me in in my relationship with him, and I found it so interesting how there’s some parallels here between your story and mine. I didn’t carry quite as much trauma as you did, but I did carry quite a bit and I didn’t notice that, no, how bad it was, until I went back to therapy several months ago and I’ve I’ve shared that journey on the podcast.
Speaker 2:
They kind of tell people there’s no shame in getting help, there’s no shame in working through these patterns. It’s better because that’s the way you get released from these fear-based belief systems. You get released from the shame that you’re carrying around. It’s really heavy. Yeah, and it does not make you feel good on the inside, makes you feel tired all the time yeah, very low energy and, and we have amazing purposes to fulfill and I’m sure god kind of shared his purpose for your life, didn’t he?
Speaker 2:
can you share a little bit about how he shared that purpose with you?
Speaker 3:
My purpose has been evolving, I guess I would say I have different things I do at different times and I pivot sort of like a dance. You know we do this and then he’s going to take me over here and we’re going to do this. But if I were to boil it down to one purpose, it’s to love others, to love others well, to learn how to love. He is love and he created us to love us and to love others. So my purpose is to love well, to love others, to love them all the time, to be that lady on the internet who loves you. I took ownership of that as a hashtag back in 2020 and showing up and telling people I love you because you are worthy of love. I don’t have to know you to tell you I love you. You are worthy of love because you exist. God created you to love. You have value and you matter. People need to hear this so much. So many people have been raised without that or they’ve been attacked, you know, with what they did know at one time. Whether it be at home, at work or church or school or wherever the location is, doesn’t matter. It just the onslaught in the world. It attacks our value and our belovedness. We’re called the beloved. He created us for love. He invited us into the circle of love. Father, son and Holy Spirit exist in a circle and a relationship in love. That’s one of unity and we’re invited into that.
Speaker 3:
And the way certain churches or religion has portrayed this is so damaging, and I’d like to point out here a little bit too, for someone who might not know. We talked about religious trauma. I also want to point out that there is also spiritual trauma and church hurt. Those are three different things that affect us three different ways, and so I have an article on my website that goes through the difference of the three, how they affect you three different ways and then how you can address them three different ways. But I had all three of those as well, and so I didn’t believe I had the right to exist because God threw me away.
Speaker 3:
Little child heart, when the church threw me away, believed the lie. That God himself threw me away, so he doesn’t want me anyways was what I believed. So why should I want him? It was such a lie. We trapped in these lies, and that’s our enemy is the liar. He’s the father of lies, and those are the stories we tell ourselves, we are prone to making up the rest of the story. That’s why, when we text someone, we don’t hear back. We want to hear back because if we don’t hear back, we’re going to make up a story, because somehow that’s part of our humanity and so we need to learn how to rule over the narrative in our mind. That’s why I love that book, battlefield of the Mind, by Joyce Meyer, of how to be mindful, how to practice what I call mind management, which is hiring yourself as the manager of your mind.
Speaker 3:
When you go to a restaurant or you go to a store, you understand who the manager is. The manager is the one who is in charge. You have a problem? You go talk to the manager, but to practice mind management, you need to hire yourself as the manager. Oh, I’m having a problem. You go talk to the manager, but to practice mind management, you need to hire yourself as the manager. Oh, I’m having a problem with my mind. Well, I need to go to myself and talk to myself about this and have the Lord help me rule over this, because our minds are a gift the Lord has given us and our brain is a supercomputer, but our mind is the one that operates it. Sort of like we have a laptop or a desktop or even our phones and that has an operating system on it, but we’re the operator of that and we get to be the operator of our mind, which uses the operating system of our brain.
Speaker 2:
And I totally agree with that. I mean lots of things kind of popped in my head, because in my book I also in my first book I referenced quite a bit of authors that referenced this exactly, when they kept telling you change your attitude. I always say it’s like it’s really change your thoughts, because the thoughts are what lead the big feelings and then the feelings lead to reactions and habits and results. But the truth is, we can interrupt our thoughts that tell us what the deceiver wants us to hear, which is you’re full of doubt, like god doesn’t love you. All the things that sometimes all these thoughts are telling us. Instead of listening to ourselves, we should talk to ourselves.
Speaker 2:
And all these, you know, the people that you allow into your like, your unit, like people around your orbit. It matters because they’re influencing you, whether you realize it or not they are, and if they’re negative people, you’re going to have a lot more negative thoughts come at you without realizing it, cause the mind is extremely powerful, with no filter, it’s constantly taking in information. So all the things that you’re watching, all the things that you’re listening to, all of it is influencing you. There’s like a subliminal message they always talk about in psychology. Well, there’s a reason for that it’s because the mind’s always listening, and so we’ve got to change that around. And all the really high-performing people, the people that have reached the pinnacle of their careers, they’ll tell you the same thing they don’t listen to themselves, they talk to themselves. And they change that dialogue around with what aligns to, in our case, what aligns to christ, because we, we are women that have found our identity in christ, and that is that starts to align what does it align?
Speaker 2:
with what he wants us to do, yes or no. If it doesn’t, we don’t do it. It’s that simple. We just don’t take the energy or the time to do it, because then that’s the deceiver trying to deceive us into a different path. That’s not for us, whereas other people, they will use other things that influence them. Right, but, um, but I’m in total agreement with that. I I find it very fascinating and, you know, before we leave this interview, I do want you to send a link to that article that you referenced on your website or wherever that discusses the differences between the religion trauma and the spiritual trauma. What was the third one you mentioned?
Speaker 2:
Church hurt Okay, church hurt. Can you give some brief description of it? You don’t have to go into too much detail, but it would be great in this interview.
Speaker 3:
Yes, simply, church hurt is when something happens in the context of the church that affects your relationship with the church and with the body of Christ. It’s a wound that takes place in the area of relationship.
Speaker 2:
Okay.
Speaker 3:
Spiritual trauma affects relationship, the spirit of a person, their direct relationship with the Lord, and they go through existential crisis. It affects the very core of their life, their spirit. Where religious trauma could be aligned to, people get like PTSD. It’s from the behavior modification and the legalism and the control and things like that, like God will only love you if you do this and it’s the controlling outside things and people can be triggered by certain spiritual disciplines in something because they’ve been trained and taught or oppressed in manipulative and coercive and abusive ways.
Speaker 2:
Oh my goodness Okay. So yeah, there’s lots to unpack here, Lots and lots and lots.
Speaker 3:
That was interesting when you were talking about, when you were talking about the thoughts. It’s about changing your thoughts which lead to the big feelings. And I chuckled when listening to you say, yeah, well, that’s probably why I didn’t. I got stuck there because feelings weren’t, weren’t a thing, feelings were something to be suppressed and not expressed. When I was growing up they were, you know, allowed only within certain contexts and, you know, only by permission, and so that that’s a part of that change process was crippled. You know, if I change my thoughts, I need to just change what I’m thinking, I need to just change what I’m doing, I need to just beast something else. And it’s like you can’t just magically not be yourself. So with that kind of oppression, you stifle who you are and you lose yourself. You don’t even know who you are anymore and you go into performance mode of well, when I’m with this people, then I have to perform like this, and when I’m with these people, I have to perform like this, and you don’t even know who you are anymore. So went through that whole thing of finding yourself.
Speaker 3:
Some people will mock that, but there is some truth in that. When people have gone through trauma and they have lost track of. I don’t know what I like. I don’t know what these feelings are. There’s a word called alexithymia. It’s a real thing that people don’t know their feelings. They don’t know what they’re called. They don’t know what they’re feeling. They don’t know how to express them. They don’t know how to respond to them. It’s a real thing.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, yeah, there’s just so much to unpack that book Also. Uh, the body keeps the score. That one’s a always a recommended book. I can’t remember who the author is, but it’s basically. Dr, Vander Coke like how you understand, like all the trauma your body goes through.
Speaker 2:
It remembers everything, and so it’s. It’s really interesting to kind of dive into trauma in in various different ways, and I know that we could go on for another 45, 50 minutes on this, but we’re going to move it along, uh, in the interest of time and just attention spans, we know that human beings really don’t stick to podcast interviews that long, but any tips you want to give anyone that’s had some level of trauma since you’ve been through it yourself. What applicable tips can they? Start today that will make an impact.
Speaker 3:
Don’t do it alone.
Speaker 3:
You are not alone. Don’t stay alone. That doesn’t mean you have to go to counseling. If you can’t go to counseling and bring yourself to do that, I encourage you to do that. If you get a bad counselor, get a different one. I went through one bad counselor waited years until I went back again, but I went through four before I got the good one. So I encourage you to don’t give up on yourself. I dare you to not give up on yourself, but maybe you can’t do that. Don’t do it alone. Get a book you know. Read a book, listen to podcasts, watch YouTube videos, talk to a friend, talk to a pastor, if you have one, or hire a coach, because don’t do it alone.
Speaker 3:
We weren’t created to live alone. We weren’t created to live alone. We weren’t created to operate alone. We were created for relationship and I know trauma damages our relationship. It damages our relationship with ourself, it damages our relationship with others, but we have to start somewhere. We have to start somewhere.
Speaker 3:
So if you need to focus on the past, then I encourage you, and if you’re not ready to actually person in real life, book or something tangible that you can connect with someone else who’s been there before, someone who will come alongside, at least in your understanding, to help you deal with that and then get another person to work with Friend, a counselor, a coach, a pastor If you need to focus on the past a counselor, because they have all the different therapies and stuff they can do. If you’re like I’m tired of looking back there and I just need to deal with what is keeping me from going forward, then I could help you because I’m a coach. But if you come to me and you need a counselor, I’m going to send you to a counselor, so you don’t need to worry about me keeping someone that I will not coach someone if they need a counselor. But don’t do it alone. You can’t do it alone.
Speaker 3:
My husband coming into my life was a huge part of my healing. So was you know another lady who I met through my mom’s church and she led me to this group of young people and it was lots of different little pieces, it’s not just one thing. And also be kind to yourself. Try, and if you have trouble being kind to yourself which I completely understand just dare to do it again and then, after you yell at yourself or do awful things to yourself, then forgive yourself and try again, and try again. Don’t give up on yourself. I dare you. Don’t give up on yourself.
Speaker 2:
I love it. I love it. Thank you so much, Danielle. If people wanted to reach you, how can they reach you or buy your book?
Speaker 3:
want it to reach you. How can they reach you or buy your book? Well, my website is daniellebernockcom d-a-n-i-e-l-l-e-b-e-r-n-o-c-kcom and my books. You can find out my books there. I have courses that you can do in the privacy of your home home as well. I have a youtube channel. I have a free resources tab lots of free things. You can consume my stuff. See if you like me or not, because it’s so important.
Speaker 3:
Trust is imperative in your healing journey and feeling safe. All my coaching I do only online because I want my clients to feel safe. I also want to encourage. There’s a book. It’s on my other resources page because I also have a other resources page where I suggest other people’s books, and one of them because of what we talked about that really helped me a lot with something called Childhood Emotional Neglect is called Running on Empty by Dr Janice Webb. I wish I was an affiliate. I’m not.
Speaker 3:
I tell people about her book all the time, but it will help you understand what’s this childhood emotional neglect. Is this affecting me? She does it beautifully. She has a fictitious boy who grows up in a healthy situation and this is how this thing happens. This is how a healthy mom and this is how this thing happens. This is how you know a healthy mom or dad will respond to it. Then she goes through 12 other not healthy ways and identifies in what way they are emotional neglect exact same kid, exact same situation, but you could understand the difference. It’s eye-opening and I found myself in multiple places in that book.
Speaker 2:
Awesome, oh my goodness. And we’ll definitely share your webpage on the show notes and that way people can go on there and just kind of explore your website and explore your books. Danielle, thank you so much for joining us on Released Out Revealed Purpose and for those light bringers listening, remember Matthew 514, be the light, have a wonderful week, stay safe, love you all. Bye now.
Speaker 1:
So that’s it for today’s episode of Release Doubt Reveal Purpose. Head on over iTunes or wherever you listen and subscribe to the show. One lucky listener every single week who posts a review on iTunes will win a chance in the grand prize drawing to win a $25,000 private VIP day with Sylvia Worsham herself. Be sure to head on over to sylviaworsham.com and pick up a free copy of Sylvia’s gift and join us on the next episode.